Our Thoughts on Andruw Jones and the HOF
January 10, 2011 at 9:15 pm by Kevin Orris under Atlanta Braves
As I mentioned last week, Peter and I would be contributing our thoughts on the Andruw Jones’ Hall of Fame candidacy. Our views are constructed below.
Peter’s Thoughts:
In short, I think Andruw Jones has already done enough to justify a spot in the Hall of Fame. If you look at his J-HOFFA stats, he falls short in Black and Gray ink, but those statistics are exclusively based on batting accomplishments. Andruw Jones made his name as a fielder. For six straight years (1997-2002) he lead the league in defensive rWAR and he’s 1st on the active dWAR list with 23.7 (second only to Brooks Robinson all-time, ahead of Roberto Clemente, Ozzie Smith, and the likes).
When you compare him to other players of his era, it’s clear he had one of the best peaks in the game. From 1995-2010 only 2 players accumulated more rWAR during their 3rd-11th seasons: Albert Pujols and Alex Rodriguez. Andruw is ahead of Todd Helton, Chipper Jones, Bobby Abreu, Vladimir Guerrero, Scott Rolen, Jim Edmonds, Derek Jeter, et cetera. Change the requirement from the post-strike era to the live-ball era (1920-2010) and Andruw still comes in 27th, behind Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, Barry Bonds, Lou Gehrig, Stan Musial, Hank Aaron, Mike Schmidt, Ted Williams, Albert Pujols, Alex Rodriguez, Eddie Matthews, Rickey Henderson, Cal Ripken Jr., Ken Griffey Jr., Rogers Hornsbey, Jeff Bagwell, Joe DiMaggio, Jimmie Foxx, Mel Ott, Wade Boggs, Babe Ruth, Carl Yastrzemski, Duke Snider, Arky Vaughan, Frank Robinson, and George Brett. Every single one of those players that is eligible for the Hall of Fame is in except Jeff Bagwell, who has been on the ballot for only one year. The ineligibles are Barry Bonds, Albert Pujols, Alex Rodriguez, and Ken Griffey Jr.
The Hall of Fame voters have traditionally been open to granting players whose primary method of production involves their glove admission. When Andruw’s time comes, I hope they recognize what an amazingly valuable peak he had and give credit where credit is due. He’s a Hall of Famer in my book.
Kevin’s Thoughts:
As a Braves fan, I would love for nothing more than Jones to get the nod into the Hall of Fame, but unless the election process is altered, I doubt that he will get the nod.
While his defensive accomplishments are unmatched as proven through numbers, scouting, and Gold Glove Awards, the writers have proven that they don’t value his defense as much as the fans seem to. His 2005 offensive numbers were the best of his career – and even then he failed to win the National League MVP Award. (Yes, I’m aware he still won a Silver Slugger, Gold Glove, and was voted into the All-Star Game)
The writers who vote for the Hall of Fame are the same ones who vote for the awards, therefore, I have little faith in them electing Andruw Jones years down the line. I’m willing to bet that he will earn 20-30% of the vote his first year, at the most. Like most Braves fans, I agree that it’s highly unlikely that Jones took steroids. He never seemed to care very much. Even if he did, they didn’t help him.
Jones career went downhill when he started to fall out of shape. He was adding weight, stealing fewer bases, and suffered from slightly reduced range. In order for steroids to work effectively, if at all, you need to work out on a regular basis. I’m not buying it.
Writers will still be writers when it comes to the voting and attempt to create stories rather than write about the, and leave him off of their ballot. Whether it’s regarding him playing in the steroid era, his poor batting average, or the relatively short length of success (in HOF standards), I wouldn’t be surprised if he spends 15 years on the ballot without election.
Side Note: I stopped through Atlanta last week in a trip across the country to find out that everyone was preparing for the “big snow storm” promising to drop 3-5 inches on Sunday. The news mentioned that people were purchasing snow blowers for said occasion. As a Chicagoland native, don’t buy a snowblower for such little snow. Rather, purchase a shovel. You are welcome for the financial advice.
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I think the thing that will stick with voters is his “image” toward the decline portion of his career. That and a startling low number of defensively great centerfielders will make it pretty tough for him to get in.
He absolutely should. If Ozzie Smith can get in then Andruw should as well, especially with over 400 homers. If he went to a team like New York and padded his numbers against left-handed pitching for a few seasons and played on a few teams that won WS titles I could see his image being altered and the voters pushing him in.
Yeah I think a big problem for him is how he kind of fell off a cliff once he turned 30. Now he has hit well the past couple years but it’s only been in a part time role and I think a lot of writers are gonna be thinking steroids even though I doubt he ever did, I think his new stance really did help him generate more power
If there is one thing to think about it is the slight shift towards sabermetrics within the BBWAA. They did vote King Felix and Zach Greinke as the AL Cy Young winners for the last two years and neither of them “won” a lot of games for their teams.
Maybe stat heads will start pushing this kind of thing as we move into the future.
Hey Kevin, I have never understood the inclination to critique the Albert Pujols 2005 MVP. Sure Andruw is a better fielder, but he had an OBP 80 points lower, slugging 30 points lower, twice the strikeouts, and a warp or 6.4 vs. King Albert’s 8.5. The offensive separation was more than a little significant. So stop. Please. He didn’t get robbed, he wasn’t as good.
As for the hall, comparing Andruw to recently eligible Jeff Bagwell will show that Andruw’s offensive career numbers are entirely too weak. Low OBP, Slugging? And don’t even get me started on Andruw’s numbers vs. top ten pitchers, even during his prime.
And Andruw’s career warp is 30 points below Ozzie Smith. Or roughly the same as Fred McGriff. Or for another centerfielder, similar to Kenny Lofton. How are they doing getting in the hall?
Andruw wasn’t nearly good enough for long enough. He had a short peak and his career also didn’t have the longevity.
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telemakhos,
His peak lasted 9 years.
someone will pick Andruw up, possibly the yankees, and he will hit between 15-25 homers and drive in another 75-85. If you look at his numbers over the past couple seasons, he has hit for power despite limited playing time. Although he isn’t in the best shape of his life, he came in weighing around 175 and is now probably 240 or so, he could still play a corner outfield spot and would provide sound defense and a good righthad bat. Don’t count Andruw out yet he will turn 34 this year and could make it to the 500 club.
First ballot for sure compared to …… not in it at all? http://www.fangraphs.com/graphsw.aspx?playerid2=327&playerid3=&playerid4=&playerid5=96
I think he is a definite Hall of Fame player, whether or not the guys who have a vote agree or not remains to be see. His defensive play alone merits some votes.
In addition to the falling off a cliff issue – he laid a HUGE egg in Los Angeles for Joe Torre and ended up getting run out of town. Fair or not, that will probably stick with some of the voters. Perhaps if he plays well in NY (assuming he signs there) some of that stigma goes away.
I can agree that if he retired TODAY, it’d be a debate. Maybe they’d focus on the image now, or maybe they’d focus on the massive range in CF for arguably the premier defensive player at the position all time. But it’d be close.
That said, he’s not retiring today. So if he has another 3-5 good years in him, and can top 450 if not approach 500 HRs, maybe add a ring or two if he catches on with the right club, I think that’d make him a lock. But then again, he could also go 2 more years with production like in LA, and ruin any good effects of the last 2 years. As of now, toss up but I’d lean towards in. Ask again when he retires, and the Hall may be more definite.
Andruw Jones is HOF material. Because he had injury problems in LA and was a bust he has had a very hard time recovering.
I think if he signs with NY and has a decent year all will be forgiven and he will regain credibility which is what he needs. If he fails then it’s over with the NY press who influence everyone who votes for the HOF.
Jones is one of those players you had to see often to really appreciate. Some players had flashes in the field but for Jones in his prime it was every night. He left a lot of himself on the field because of it and should be given credit for it.
It was not until he fell in love with the Long Ball that he really started to decline with the bat. I don’t think TP did him any favors. He needs a hitting coach that he can connect with in order to return his average. Now that he is healthy I look for his fielding prowes to return as well.
If a steriod-free player hits 500 hr, he’s pretty much in automatically, even if he has a terrible glove. Andruw will finish about 70 short of that number but with 10 gold gloves and insane dWAR numbers. Isn’t being an all-time great defensive player for 10 straight years worth those 70 extra hr?
I just went from Monterey, CA to Syracuse, NY. Shovel is definitely the way to go, a snowblower for 30 inches of snow is stupid if its a one time go.
As far as Andruw, I think he deserves it, but might not get it if he doesn’t do a late career push.
I actually remember when he came up and hit some homers in the playoffs – I loved him. And he had an amazing run. I’m not sure we’ll ever see a player like that again, defensively, because the league is so offensively driven. Maybe I’m biased, though.
Is it baseball yet? Winter is boring. I’m a diehard believer in that there are two seasons… winter.. and baseball. Winter’s too long. I forget the originator.
Basketball is a good substitute for baseball during the Winter.
Looking back, I suppose his highest peak was short, but he was still a very good center fielder for a long time, but with a precipitous dropoff.
He had a long peak. Let’s stop talking about it being short. Nine years is a long time. His fall-off was precipitous, and had mostly to do with his lack of seriousness in conditioning/preparation. I can understand why that would lessen his career in peoples’ eyes, but let’s call it for what it is: his peak could have been longer if he was more dedicated to his craft, but it was long.
Eddie Mathews, Mickey Mantle, and countless others could have had more productive careers if they weren’t drunks. In Andruw’s case, throwing one’s career away may not be admirable, but it doesn’t make his accomplishments any less.
The three greatest fielding CFers were Speaker, Mays, and Andruw. Andruw is probably the best. He wasn’t just very good. He was awesome. The troglodytes who vote won’t get that for a decade or two, but eventually they will. He’ll get in.
13/FrankICantWren
You said “Jones is one of those players you had to see often to really appreciate. Some players had flashes in the field but for Jones in his prime it was every night. He left a lot of himself on the field because of it and should be given credit for it.”
Unfortunately, a majority of the members voting for the Hall of Fame didn’t get to see Andruw play more than 20 games of his career in person. When you consider the voters who have been retired and the American League writers, and then those who don’t actually attend games, the odds don’t stack up in his favor. Especially since there are only a select few Atlanta-based writers who have a Hall vote.
16/Capitol Avenue Club
Basketball is good, but hockey is better. I made it to my first Thrashers game last week. As a marketing guy, they had one of the funniest promotions that I’ve ever seen when they started dropping Chick-fil-a Cows from the rafters in the third period.
Also, for those of you who think that it’s too early to tell – what makes you think that he’s going to put up good numbers over the rest of his career? There are many players who stayed in the game for a long time and slowed down at the end of their career, causing damage to their reputation. I think that Andruw’s struggles over the past few seasons have been well documented and the writers are going to have a very difficult time voting for a player who hit .158 at the age of 31. Barring a miracle, I don’t see things falling his way.
I just can’t seem to get into the NBA. I watch college basketball but the games are few and far between and even though my college is still undefeated, it doesn’t compare to the amount of time I can waste at work on baseball. Sad, I know. fml.
I put not yet but possibly, yet I do not see anything he does for the remainder of his career to be the determining factor. I would have no qualms with Andruw Jones as a hall of famer, and I would vote for him.
If the question was to determine IF he will be inducted to the Hall of Fame, then I think there will be some time to see how his career is viewed. If he gets lumped into generic steroids hitter as Bagwell has been apparently, then I am not sure if he could make up the initial points against him. If he is touted as being outfield Ozzie Smith, then he probably waltzed in within 3 ballots.
My main issue with Andruw and his production is the overall variance used in defensive measures. Andruw was very good defensively and everyone is agreed on that, but how valuable? I said in the other Andruw post that even among individual players there can be large difference in what each player actually added defensively. Taking an aggregate is fine if you are unsure of which is better or looking at an estimate of is he good or not.
If Andruw is listed as a +20 defender from 97-07, but something comes up and hes moved down to a +15 or 10, he is still an extremely good CF, but his overall value is reduced. If he loses 8-10 defensive wins, is he still a lock for the HOF? I do not question than any of the numbers are wrong, but I am hesitant to put significant faith in measurements with large differences among themselves. Andruw is/was very good and is almost certainly deserving of the hall, but he would get in because of defense which has not been measured nearly as effectively as hitting.
As terrific a glove as Jones had in the outfield, unfortunately I don’t think he stands a chance being elected into the HOF.
Career .256 batting averages simply don’t make the cut… and furthermore the 400 homerun plateau seems to be viewed as much lesser of an accomplishment then say, 20 years ago..
He was an outstanding player who I was fortunate enough to see play in person, however his case for the HOF seems pretty low, with such a low batting average and no MVP on his list of accomplishments either
Ben/22,
If an MVP was required there would be a lot fewer players in the hall.
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I still can’t get over the fact that an extremely talented, fast, athletic centerfielder whom many consider the best ever defensively could turn into a guy whose ass requires its own zip code all by the age of 30! And he did not deserve at least the last couple gold gloves he won. It’s almost so pathetic that regardless of his HOF credentials, it feels to me as though he doesn’t belong.
Though I would still be happy if he got in.
I am a big fan of sabermetrics, but in A. Jones’ case, I ignore it. Sure, he had a great glove, but he was useless as a hitter. He put up 20 or 30 home runs every year and drove in some runs, but he rarely got a useful hit. He reminded me of Klesko. If the Braves were up by 20 runs, he would hit 5 homers. If they needed a hit in the 9th inning, it never happened.
@24 i know its a small sample, but Klesko did bat .313/.421/.875 in the 95 WS. Anyway, I think AJ deserves the Hall, he was amazing during that 9-10 year stretch.
@22 why should his batting average matter at all?
Andruw’s case for the hall of fame is primarily as a great defender. Compare his offensive stats to other all-time great, hall of fame defenders like Brooks Robinson and Ozzie Smith: Brooks hit 268 hr and his career batting average was .267. Ozzie hit only 28 hr and hit .262. As of today Andruw has 407 hr and .256, which compares very favorably to the other two.
And yes, I know it is pretty useless to compare the stats of players from different eras, but that’s essentially what the hall of fame is all about– 500 hr, 3,000 hits, 300 wins, etc are all clearly established bench marks (for “clean” players) no matter what era the player played in. The dividing line for great defensive players is less clearly established, but whatever it is, Andruw should meet it.
@24/Michael
The evidence you cited in support of AJ being a “useless hitter”, and Klesko performing poorly in high leverage situations is not convincing. Please do some research and present us with statistical evidence supporting your claims. No offense, but I don’t really care what you recollect from your distant memory.
Ben/22,
The reasons you listed of Andruw not getting in are ludicrous.
.256 batting average. Really? Harmon Killebrew himself got in with a .256 average. Sure he hit more HR’s, but he also had a career dWar approaching -8. Andruw’s overall value is very close to Killebrew’s. It took Killebrew a couple of tries to get in, but he did.
Another good name to bring up. Brooks Robinson. .723 career OPS and a defensive wizard. First ballot HOF.
I think Andruw will get in, I am just not sure when. Truthfully, I would say he’s probably a 3rd-5th year HOFer. Realistically, it may take him longer.
Michael/24,
Come on man…at least check Klesko’s wiki page before talking crap about him. The man homered in 3 consecutive road WS games in the 95 series, the first time that ever happened. Do a little more digging, and you will find that one of those was hit in none other than the 9th inning when the Braves were down 3. And another was hit in the 8th. Wow good job..
Ok, so I voted “No, he’s not a HOFer” here and at Fangraphs, but I don’t think I necessarily meant it. Here’s what I think:
His offense doesn’t say Hall of Fame to me. A 136 OPS+ peak is good, but not world-beating or historical. Overall he was a good to very good offensive player, taking into account his position. Thus, this half of his resume provides little support for his HOF case.
Of course, that case is really founded on his defense, which was stellar. But the question is always: how stellar? See, the thing about offensive statistics is that we have come a good long way towards completely quantifying them, which allows us to make pretty fine-grained comparisons between players from different teams, eras, and ballparks. This makes the HOF call easier than it used to be on the offensive side. If we’re being honest, we have come nowhere near that far on the defensive side. UZR may be represented to 10ths of a decimal place, but even its designers acknowledge that it is pure junk in partial-season samples, unreliable in full-season samples, and subject to large uncertainty bars over the course of a full career. That’s why, to me, citing Andruw’s fWAR total as the main component of his HOF case (as Dave Cameron did, as Kevin and Peter did not) doesn’t work for me. I don’t buy the defensive component. I believe that it tells us something–in this case, that Andruw Jones was a great defensive center fielder–but I don’t believe it has sufficient precision to tell us something as specific as “Andruw Jones was the best defensive center fielder in baseball in X out of the Y seasons he played” or “Andruw Jones was X% better at playing CF than Ozzie Smith was at playing SS.”
Now, in Andruw’s case, it’s clearly not just UZR, and not just computer-generated (from human-created data, but still) defensive statistics in general, that rate him a great defender. The eyes of fans, the opinions of coaches and managers (snort) and, more importantly, the evaluations of professional scouts all agree that he was a really great center fielder. But again, my problem is not with the question of whether Andruw was “great” in some sense, but in assessing orders of magnitude. Although scouts do a bit of that with their 20-80 scales, I don’t think anyone pretends that that’s meant to be precise, and it obviously also doesn’t capture the true outliers, because you’ll generally see several guys grading out at 80 on various scales at any given time in the minors. Without some idea of how much better Andruw was than other guys whose value comes primarily from their glove who are both in and out of the Hall, it’s hard to say whether he gets in or not.
But in the end, when all the indictators point far in one direction, and if you acknowledge that players should be able to get in for value contributed on defense (which I think everyone does), I think you have to say Andruw is in, if deserve’s got something to do with it. I just don’t think it’s as clear-cut as some commentators are making it out to be, simply because of the inherent imprecision of the way we measure defensive value.
Final verdict: too soon to call.
I think we can all agree that if Andruw gets to 500 HR, then he’s in. And we all agree that his defense is his best attribute. He has 407 HR now, but how long will he keep playing, and how will he hit during that time? Last year, he hit a 920 OPS against lefties, and a 780 against righties, but more than 2/3 of his AB were against righties along with 11 of his 19 HR. I think he very clearly can become a 4th OF that plays for several more years, if his defense is as good as we say, and if he wants it. And there’s the rub. If his D is as good as his staunchest proponents say it is, and he has the desire, then his HR total will rise as he continues to play.
Put another way, right now the “Andruw” story is of a guy whose offense fell off the planet and stayed there for the last 3 years. His D is forgotten. If he becomes a defensive specialist and platooner against lefties for several years, the story may change to praising his D again.
I say, if he gets to 450 HR, he’s in.
When Andruw was a Brave I told anyone who would listen and some who would not, that he was the greatest defensive centerfielder I had ever seen. My father, who saw Willie Mays, told me the same thing. My grandfathers, who saw Mickey Mantle and Joe Dimaggio told me that Andruw had betetr range and a better arm.
Andruw told Scott Boras to stick it and took less money to remain a Brave for a couple of seasons and that makes him All Universe to me.
The problem is, Andruw left Atlanta and has been bad, not average, but bad as a major leaguer. He never kept himself in shape and he never got disciplined as a hitter. That’s ok in your 20s, bad in your 30s. If you judge his career before the age of 30, he’s one of the greatest ever.
I vote yes as a Hall of Famer but I’m voting with my heart, not my head. My vote may not count for much as a result.
After perusing an espn.com article concerning Scott Boras clients, including Andruw Jones, I found some old Kool Aid in the fridge. It was a little bitter going down and the sugar had granulated a bit. However, after drinking the kool aid I feel refreshed and excited to see the Braves re-sign the other Mr. Jones. Frankly, I don’t think I’d care if he generates 299 Ks in 308 at bats. I want to see his wheels in center-even if the steel is showing through the tires. I want to see that big Curacao smile on the Braves bench even when its unwarranted. I know you can never go home again, but damn it, I want Andruw back.
So, which one of y’all ran over to Fangraphs and projected all our players to have insane seasons? Heyward was hovering around 8 WAR projected until they fixed it.
Hey Peter, any chance you’ll bring back the “Friday Links” series?
Biased Fan/34,
Seriously. Heyward’s wasn’t even the most outrageous one. Alex Gonzalez was like .280/.340/.480 or something. Freeman was at around .290/.360/.490. The pitching projections were pretty insane, too. Tommy Hanson at like 7 WAR.
I think Chipper, Prado, and McLouth were the only reasonable ones.
Jon/35,
It’s a pain in the ass, probably not.
If anyone is interested in what the fan projections were at Fangraphs before they were changed:
I copied them down as part of some data gathering for my own porpoises (the swimming ones) on the 14th – the day before they were reverted to sanity.
Player (BT) fWAR fFIP
Chipper Jones 4.6 0.389
Jason Heyward 7.8 0.426
Alex Gonzolez 3.8 0.339
Brian McCann 6.0 0.383
Dan Uggla 4.9 0.382
Martin Prado 4.3 0.371
Freddie Freeman 3.3 0.368
Nate McClouth 3.9 0.380
Player (SP) fWAR fFIP
Tim Hudson 5.0 3.51
Derek Lowe 4.9 3.43
Tommy Hanson 7.7 2.63
Jiar Jurjjens 4.4 3.46
Mike Minor- 3.9 3.24
Player (RP) fWAR fFIP
Jonny Venters 1.5 3.03
Craig Kimbrell 2.0 2.68
Eric O’Flaherty_ 1.0 3.50
Yeah, that’s a 110 win team.
Insanity.
That deal that Soriano went to sign with the Stankees is something I wish he’d have done last year when the Braves offered him Arbitration…and then he accepted.
@Biased Fan 37
Wow. Nate McLouth at almost 4 wins gave me a good laugh.
@39/Jon
You mean you didn’t like having Jesse Chavez, Rick Ankiel, and Kyle Farnsworth for a few months?
no, no, no. Those WAR figures are correct. We just forgot to calculate for grit, hustle and a good clubhouse personality. Just imagine if we signed David Eckstien, we’d never lose.
@42/Jabuck
Good stuff.
In fact, if Eckstien was still a viable defender at SS I’d throw him 1.3/ 1year. His stick is terrible and the whole “grit” argument is bollocks, but there is something to be said for a cheap league average bench defender. Hell, if I was a manager I’d use Eckstien the way (King of the Hill reference to follow) Bobby Hill’s track coach used him – threaten position players that if their performance didn’t improve they’d be benched and replaced with Eckstien… a fate more embarrassing than death – by turtles.
5’7 turtles.
From the FJM Glossary:
“David Eckstein
David Eckstein is 4’10″ and appears to suffer from borderline albinism. Despite this, he is a mediocre MLB shortstop. After he throws the ball to first base, it looks like he needs to lie down from exhaustion. He also runs hard to first base, as most baseball players do.
Baseball analysts have interpreted this data to be somehow indicative of something more powerful than mere “tangible” baseball skills, perhaps residing somewhere deep in the (non-human?) DNA of David Eckstein.
In fact, a new wave of baseball genetic experts believes that there may be a mutant patch of genetic code on chromosome 11 in some major league ballplayers. In most cases, this causes True Yankeeism. Eckstein, they claim, was born with a mutation of a mutation; the resulting phenotype features not only acute and heightened True Yankeeism, but stunted growth and fair skin and hair.”
@41/tim in mpls: I like the sarcasm there.
Probably nothing to get excited about, but does anyone know anything about this Anthony Varvaro that the Braves claimed off waivers from Seattle the other day? Is he as bad as (or only as good as) those numbers would indicate?
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2011/01/13/braves-claim-reliever-off-waivers-from-mariners
No idea. Hard to believe a 26 year old relief pitcher with a career MiLB 5.5 BB/9 who was just put on waivers has much to offer, though. Sounds like depth.
I wouldn’t mind being a mediocre major league shortstop. Doesn’t that mean he is one of the best baseball players in the world?
I understand why people are cynical about the raves for Eckstein’s “grit and hustle” and so forth. But, people get carried away acting as if he is the worst player ever to play. I mean, he was good enough to play on World Series teams, which at least means he didn’t destroy their chances to win. I’ve seen Braves shortstops in my lifetime about which you couldn’t say that (see, Sonny Jackson).
I think people tend to forget about how good you have to be to actually play in the major leagues–even being a bad major leaguer means you are higher up in your profession than the vast majority of fans are in theirs.
Is it accurate to say that Andruw “didn’t work out”? I think he probably lifted alot of weights. He probably just didn’t do enough cardio, and the lifting he did was probably more of the power lifting variety. His eating habits obviously couldn’t have been very good either. He probably would’ve fared better eating better, doing more cardio, and lifting to maintain long and lean muscle.
But he always seemed like a guy who likes big homers, diving catches, a big arm, and that sort of thing. So, for him, working out or weight lifting may have been more about who can bench or squat or curl the most instead of being done in a manner more conducive to the sport he played.
The “working out” thing does seem like a problem for the Braves. Just from hearing interviews with Chipper, Francoeur and McCann over the years, it seems like alot of Braves don’t concern themselves too much with their diet or with doing cardio or with stretching, yoga, pilates or with doing anything other than power lifting.
Just listening to the three of them over the years, it seems like the attitude is to lift a ton of weights in the offseason, put on 15 pounds of muscle, never do much cardio or stretching or yoga, and then never lift or do cardio during the season and just let the extra 15 pounds burn off during the course of the season.
I think this:
“The “working out” thing does seem like a problem for the Braves. Just from hearing interviews with Chipper, Francoeur and McCann over the years, it seems like alot of Braves don’t concern themselves too much with their diet or with doing cardio or with stretching, yoga, pilates or with doing anything other than power lifting.
Just listening to the three of them over the years, it seems like the attitude is to lift a ton of weights in the offseason, put on 15 pounds of muscle, never do much cardio or stretching or yoga, and then never lift or do cardio during the season and just let the extra 15 pounds burn off during the course of the season.”
Is exactly right. If I were running a baseball franchise there are two things I would immediately do that most teams don’t. Number one I’d hire a chef for each of my minor league teams and have him cook nutritious meals for the players. I’d hire multiple food scientists and nutrition experts to design the menus and train the chefs. It’s amazing to me how much money teams are wasting down the road by allowing their minor leaguers to use McDonalds and Taco Bell as their primary source of nutrition. How fucking dumb is that? Seriously.
Number two is I’d hire a whole department worth of trainers to implement and execute a conditioning/training program based primarily on flexibility. Obviously you don’t want to abolish weight-lifting entirely and some player should be doing it more than others, but flexibility is so crucial to baseball success and it seems to be left alone when training comes to be. Especially my pitchers, I’d be determined to have the most flexible group of pitchers in organized baseball.
A lot of running–possibly on a tread mill–would probably be involved. Every professional player should be able to run a 5K without stopping. I kind of doubt they all can.