Misconceptions About Freeman’s Defense
May 11, 2011 at 3:52 pm by Ben Duronio under Atlanta Braves
Oddly, I was planning on making this post today even before last night’s miscue occurred. It could be just what I am seeing, but I have not seen the level of defense from Freddie Freeman that I expected entering the season.
The difficulties I have seen with him have almost all been on balls hit to his right, as well as a few times when he had a ball hit directly at him – citing a play in the Dodger’s series specifically. There have been a few nice dives and stops, but the range is what has been lacking. He picks a good ball at first, but that skill is a part of the duties that come along with being a first basemen. It is hard for me to say a second basemen is a great defender because he turns a quick and concise double play. Picks at first base come more frequently, but I hope my point is understood.
Defensive statistics do not mean a great deal at this point. Mostly due to the fact that things can change and they are result based, which does not help much going forward. Even so, the stats on Freeman do not feel that he has been as good as some suggest to this point in the season.
I certainly do not feel that Freeman’s defense will continue to remain at this below average level. There is absolutely room for improvement. He is not very athletic, but for his size he has a great amount of quickness. This aspect reminds of Mark Teixeira a bit, but I saw more range from Teixeira in his early years and in his tenure with the Braves.
I do not think his current rank of dead last in DRS at -6 is an accurate portrayal of his defense, but the depiction of a defensive wizard is not very accurate either.
Edit: Also, due to the kind comments from last week I will be doing the Twitter/e-mail mailbag tomorrow. Send your questions throughout today and tonight to @Ben_Duronio or bduronio@capitolavenueclub.com and I will answer the most relevant and interesting ones in a post tomorrow.
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Having watched a ton of Braves games, I really don’t think that you can ignore all the potential errors that Freeman has saved with good picks on balls thrown in the dirt, catching balls thrown too high (he is 6′ 5″), and catching an offline throw and still tagging the runner…
While these plays are not reflected in defensive stats, they are extremely important. It wouldn’t surprise me if Freeman has saved 5-10 errors already this season, getting the out.
However, I don’t think these are counted in UZR and other defensive stats…
Any discussion of his defense needs to consider the above, as well as his range and glove work.
who cares if picking bad throws is ‘part of the job’ or not? if he makes more outs doing that than he loses from range, that’s a good thing right?
CAC,
do you know if Mauro Gomez can play LF?
if Heyward has to be DL’d, he’d be the best bat to call up right now, right?
Boom!,
“Picking bad throws” is sometimes overrated with regards to its difficulty. And it’s sort of a prerequisite for a first baseman to have soft/quick enough hands to scoop a short hop. The comparison should not be how well he “picks” compared to his range, but how well he does vs the average first baseman.
@1: Don’t just make the assumption that you don’t think it’s true and then use that assumption to make your point. If someone refutes your assumption, your entire point is moot. That’s shaky ground for anyone to attempt to stand on.
@2: As fjrobinson said, “picks” vs range cannot accurately judge how well he performs.
One of my points, that seemingly was lost on a few people arguing on the previous comments’ section is that you have to use both the “eye test” (of yourself and of scouts) and defensive metrics. I don’t take seriously for a second anything of someone who says they watch 90%+ of Braves’ games and “this is why ‘So-and-so’ is a good player.” It is another erroneous statement because a person’s judgment is clouded by a very small sample size of a player’s performance, whether they want it to be or not.
Another part to the “eye test” is someone who watches games on TV versus in person. One of the biggest problems with simply watching games on TV is that you have very little an idea where a player may be lining up every single pitch of every single game. Where a player lines up for a play can determine whether a play goes through a hole, into the gap, or is fielded for an out. The “eye test” quickly takes a hit in this case and, for those arguing against metrics in favor of this test, it brings down the case for this test a few notches to where it’s not any better (or could be worse) than the metrics that can be used.
I don’t like to argue for either over the other. I am completely for using both at the same time because in many cases, you can learn so much more about the way you evaluate players if you notice that what you see is not necessarily as good as you think it is.
I don’t see Freddie as a “defensive wizard”, and last night’s play on the LaRoche grounder only goes to further my point. His ability to dig out throws is probably league-average, and I believe the reason many Braves fans find those plays to be so spectacular is simply due to the fact that it’s been quite a while since we’ve seen those plays happen with any regularity. While I do think he can be over-zealous at times (once again, the LaRoche grounder), I do think he should be considered, at least, a league-average defender at first. To me, his biggest weakness is on balls hit to his right-side. That’s nothing practice can’t fix, though. His athleticism, or lack thereof, has little to nothing to do with that. It may affect his ability to get to the ball (something practice would be a good remedy for), but not his ability to actually scoop/pick/catch the ball. If his ability to work the back-hand scoop doesn’t improve, it will cost us some close outs at first depending on the angle the ball comes in at. I will be interested to see how this progresses throughout the season.
Any discussion involving Freddie has to take into account his age and experience, he will undoubtedly improve his defense as well as his offense and there is a danger in the media of building him up too high in his first season just as they did with Jason last year. It should really just a case this year of a learning curve for him and anything else is a bonus. On seperate note it is really worrying about Jason’s injury and the extent of it, I hope there is some clarification of whats going on tomorrow and this injury would seem to explain his swings recently. Heres hoping Tommy gets us back on track tonite and Nate’s teflon gloves are in the trash.
i should clarify, that i meant: if he makes more outs above replacement level with picks than he loses compared to replacement level from range, then that’s a good thing right? the article is saying it’s irrelevent, and i disagree.
The proper comparison is Freeman’s ability to pick vs the average 1B ability to pick; however, I think it is also valid to consider how this year’s 1B picks compared to last year’s 1B. Considering for the majority of the year last year it was Glaus, Freeman is like night and day different. He is saving outs compared to last year in ability to pick and I would guess fielding as well.
To this point he might not be as great a defender as anticipated, but there is no doubt he is a major defensive upgrade compared to last year (overall, I know Lee was good in his brief tenure).
No doubt he is an upgrade over last year, but that year was more of an anomaly than the norm. The Braves usually have competent defensive first basemen.
Obviously, the value of a first basemen is seldom his defense. The post was mostly made to refute the statement many claim with regularity in regards to how great Freddie’s defense has been.
@3
No, Gomez has never played out of the infield in his minor league career. He cannot be trusted in the outfield for the first time at the Major League level.
I dont see how he can be dead last in DRS… Am I watching the games on the wrong channel or something?
Are you suggesting that Chip Caray is wrong when he says Freddie Freeman should be in contention for a gold glove this season? But CHIP CARAY said it!
@12
Nice.
Off topic, but should Hinske’s start tonight in RF be taken as a statement to Joe Mather or is Fredi G really just going with the hot bat?
It’s interesting. Lannan has been better against righties for his career than lefties. If that’s Gonzalez’s line of thinking, I am perfectly fine with it because it shows that he is willing to ignore handedness and go with splits.
Still, Hinske is tremendously worse against lefties so I still would have started Mather.
Gotta get Hinske’s glove in there.
“He is not very athletic” …. I feel like anybody playing MLB ball has to me pretty freakin athletic, especially if they were drafted in the 2nd round of the draft in which players are largely selected on their potential (which is largely based on athleticism)
otherwise, agree on all counts
@16 A lot of baseball players are not necessarily the most athletic human beings. I think it’s best to think of baseball as a mix between a craft and a sport, because in some ways baseball is more of a craft as you try to repeat the same swing, throwing motion, or what not over and over in perfect form. However, the game still requires athletic skills as well. It’s no secret that a lot of great baseball players aren’t necessarily incredible athletes. Next time you go to a baseball game count the number of bellies you can spot on the players. To name a few not so incredible athletes who made pretty good ball players, Tony Gwyn, Big Papi, and even Babe Ruth. All of them significantly out of shape. I wouldn’t say they’re incredible athletes, but they sure could play baseball.
Tony Gwynn was drafted by the Clippers to play in the nba. Gwynn stole over 300 bases in his career. Gwynn was a good defender when he was young. Don’t think it is accurate to say gwynn was not an incredible athlete, especially when young and lean, but even when older under the fat. Fat does not equal unathletic
I mean, of course he is athletic. There is a difference between a person like Justin Upton and Adam Dunn though, agreed? Freeman is more on the Dunn side of that spectrum than the Upton side.
BD,
A fielder’s “range” — the amount of space in which a player can reliably field a batted ball — is a product of responsiveness, quickness, agility, and dexterity, correct? I’m curious as to which of the above factors are failing Freddie. For example, if he’s reacting and getting to the ball quickly but muffing it upon arrival, I’m relatively unconcerned. If he’s misreading balls, on the other hand, then I start to wonder why the scouts were so high on his defense. (I assume they were, otherwise we wouldn’t have this only-newly-tested myth of his defensive excellence.) Do we know which parts of his game pleased scouts in the past? If so, in what ways is he underperforming in respect to their expectations? I don’t get to watch a lot of games, unfortunately, and the radio announcers aren’t in the business of breaking down defensive performance. (They are, apparently, in the business of reinforcing our belief in the strengths imputed to our players during spring training.)
Thanks for your time.