Braves Should Trade For Brendan Ryan
July 9, 2012 at 9:06 am by Ben Duronio under Atlanta Braves
With news of Andrelton Simmons being out likely a month, the Braves have an issue at hand at the shortstop position — once again.
The options right now are to start Jack Wilson, who is essentially all glove and no bat, or go with Tyler Pastornicky, who has a better bat that still isn’t any good and an awful glove. Of the two, I would likely start Wilson due to his defense. The Braves need help with run prevention, and Wilson would obviously be the preferable option in that regard.
Even though Wilson’s defense is superb, he has fallen off quite a bit since his peak years. Trusting defensive metrics for his game at shortstop the past two years is unwise, but it is somewhat obvious in his play that he has lost a few steps. Rather than go with Wilson, who has absolutely no offensive potential and is not as good of a defender as he once was, I would like to see the Braves trade for Brendan Ryan to start for the next month or so, then cut Wilson when Simmons returns and make Ryan the utility infielder.
Ryan does not have a bat either, with a wRC+ of 60, but he at least does walk and has the potential to hit enough to justify being played every day. His fielding is top notch, as he is likely the best defensive shortstop in the league — it’s between him and Simmons, in my opinion — so he is good enough to play just based off of that alone. If his BABIP rises up to his career .287 from its current level of .234, he could be a ~80 wRC+ guy with tremendous defense, which certainly has value.
He won’t cost much at all and he likely is not all that coveted of a trade target. The Mariners are going nowhere, so moving a guy like Ryan will certainly not be a difficult move for them to make. I advocated a trade for Ryan in the pre-season, and I especially think he is a guy the Braves should target after they have exhausted all of their options.
Consider that Ryan has been a 1.6 win player according to FanGraphs and a 2.7 win player according to Baseball-Reference before simply yelling about his batting average. Not all value is easily quantifiable, but top notch defense like Ryan’s has value and the Braves would be wise to acquire him as they currently lack any above replacement level option.
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But does Ryan have enough veteran ‘presents’ to justify eating half a mil of Wilson’s salary?
Just don’t put Ryan in a Proctor jersey. Frediot may try to dry hump him when he sees him.
Pretty solid, god I hated Proctor, he was awful. Durbin is close to catching Proctor though.
You should look at Durbin’s stats…he also went nearly two months without giving up a run (May 7th to the end of June-ish). He’s about our 2nd or 3rd most reliable reliever…
It would be nice to get somebody with a bit more bat than Ryan who could be a useful pinch hitter in the postseason, but sure he sounds like a perfectly fine 4-6 week fill in until Simmons comes back and wouldn’t cost much.
I also hope they don’t start Pastornicky. I think we’ve already seen enough to know of what he’s capable this season, and the bat’s just not developed enough to offset his glove. I wonder if Wren even calls him up, creating the risk that Fredi would actually play him, and instead bring up Josh Wilson, to have as a utility fielder (assuming no trade for someone like Ryan).
Who is Josh Wilson????????
AAA shortstop. Jack Wilson is a good hitter compared to Josh Wilson.
I think another guy that could be considered is Yuniesky Betancourt of the Royals. He’s their starting 2B, but has been an everyday starting SS for the previous 8 years. He’s not quite Ryan or Wilson’s level with the glove, but he’s not bad either. Career .970 fielding percentage and has a .701 OPS at the plate this season. Average at best bat, but not an automatic out like Ryan and Wilson. Also Wren and Moore have a history of trading players so I’m sure Wren is considering it.
Fact of the matter is we need Simmons back ASAP.
Brian, thats actually a really good suggestion. We seem to always do business with the Royals….what do you think we would have to give up though?
Probably not too much. Similar situation as Brendan Ryan. Non contender and he’s a FA after the season. Probably just one lower level would be enough for him.
Yuniesky Betancourt? Blech…
As this is a saber oriented blog, Betancourt is not a quality acquisition target. He’s essentially the same skill as Pastornicky right now on both sides of the ball, with maybe a slightly better bat but worse glove.
A worse glove … wow.
My sentiments exactly.
Another possibility is the San Diego Padres Everth Cabrera. He’s a player with ++ basepath speed who has served previously as a utility infielder at 2B and SS and even played a few games in the OF in the minors this year and last year. He is officially the #2 shortstop behind Jason Bartlett (on the DL) and the Padres seem eager to find playing time for the #3 shortstop, Andy Parrino. As their everyday shortstop for most of this year, his UZR and RZR are decent after some really awful years.
Scouts reviews are mixed on his defense with an overall impression that he’s average with still some potential to be above average if he can retain on focus on easier plays. One thing he offers that many utility guys don’t is the ability to steal bases. He has 15 SB in 46 games this year (against 0 CS).
Sure, in a 4-6 week placeholder SS, I’d rather see outstanding glovework but the league is well aware of how outstanding Ryan is. In this return to fielding and speed as priorities, I just don’t see the light-hitting Mariners feeling comfortable letting Ryan go for a pittance.
Please, no more Pastornicky. Kid has no business on a major league roster.
Can their be a clause in Ryan’s contract that he has to shave that disgusting mustache?
Placing “disgusting” in front of mustache is a bit redundant.
Yes, Everth Cabrera….and Chase Headley too! Just couldn’t bear to part with Minor/Delgado/Teheran though….
Why I think this trade won’t happen: (1) A trade for Brendan Ryan is a very clear vote of no confidence in Jack Wilson, who seem pretty popular with teammates and management; (2) Ryan provides virtually no value once Simmons returns, as he won’t be used as a defensive replacement (even if he should for Uggla); (3) Mariners have no incentive to give him away for peanuts since Nick Franklin looks to benefit from more time at AAA; (4) Wren is unlikely to part with any non-trivial prospect in exchange for a marginal upgrade over a period that could be as short as three weeks. If this is a six-week injury, I suppose the situation changes a bit.
1. We’re not gonna care about Jack Wilson’s feelings when trying to get a shortstop. He will still be on the team, so the players won’t be upset. They probably wouldn’t be upset if we DFA him because they are major league players and have seen it countless times
2. Ryan will provide more value then Wilson would when Simmons returns, which is worth something. Plus there is a lot of value to be had between Wilson/Rev and Ryan for 3-5 weeks.
3. The Mariners have no incentive to keep Ryan, he won’t net them draft picks and the likely won’t resign him. They’d be willing to give him away for say Yohan Flande and David Hale.
4. Wren has shown that he will part with pitching prospects who won’t play for the braves (i.e. Derrek Lee deal)
That would be a terrible trade….terrible.
I am glad someone had the sense to make a comment that wasn’t such a knee jerk. I like Simmons too, but you don’t need to start scouring 3rd string Shortstops throughout MLB to deal with his loss. It seems like the injury is going to be pretty short term. No need to give away any pieces when you can just plug Jack Wilson (I know, I hate his useless bat too) into the 9 hole and make it through a few weeks. In the mean time maybe some of those touted prospects can head towards picking up the starting rotation a bit.
….or the 8 hole, since this is NL baseball we’re talking about.
He deserves to be put 9th in the order when someone like Hudson is starting that day.
Freddi is has been known to hit the pitcher 8th every once in a while!
Over his career, Wilson has hit lefties a little better than righties. And while it’s too small of a sample size, Pastornicky’s numbers against righties are much better than his numbers against lefties in his ML stint.
If the Braves don’t make a trade, what about a platoon where Wilson starts both when Hudson pitches and against lefties, and Pastornicky starts otherwise?
Good idea, platoon Wilson/Pastornicky properly in a shortstop competition for the final bench spot when Simmons returns to the starting role.
I kind of doubt that the M’s will just give him away this early and we won’t and shouldn’t give up anything of substance for him. I imagine we’ll just roll with Wilson in the meantime and just try to hang on for dear life offensively from that spot in the order. Hopefully he’s still got enough left to be a real asset defensively and Simmons heals quickly.
Agreed. I think the M’s are perfectly well aware of the value Ryan provides. It’s not that they couldn’t be convinced to part with him, it’s just that they’d ask too much for his plus plus glove.
I continue to be of the opinion that there’s probably no value-creating trade for a temporary SS that Wren can make. If Simmons were out for the season, then yes, find a real stopgap. As is, suffer through Wilson for a while.
Simmons will be in a cast for 4 weeks. Who knows how long it will be before he can play at a high level.
I have not read anything to indicate that the Mariners would require a king’s ransom for Ryan. The Mariners are years away, and Ryan is the type of player that their front office will use to obtain prospects.
I don’t think it will take much to get him. I also think the Braves could kill two birds with one stone by obtaining Ryan and Kevin Millwood in a single trade. (Wren has a history of this type of trade i.e. Ankiel and Farnsworth).
It is doubtful that Jack Wilson should even be on the Braves roster. There is no way he should be a starter for a team making a playoff run.
I also think it is telling that the Braves have placed Simmons on the DL without making corresponding move. Hopefully a deal for a viable SS option is in the works.
Would love to see Ryan at 2nd base in the late innings of games. With a SS arm, he could play a deep 2nd base. It would probably give us the best infield defense in the league, to go along with the best outfield defense. (For holding late inning leads)
The real key is management considers him enough of an upgrade over Wilson for what he will cost.
Plus, you know that Fredi will love to call him in as a PH to bunt runners over!
Unrelated, but interesting. Jason Heyward is one of 21 qualified outfielders in MLB history to compile >10.0 WAR from the ages of 20-22 (and he still has one month left to add to his total). Here is a breakdown of those other 20 players:
- 11 are current HOFers
- 3 are active or recently retired (Ken Griffey Jr., Andruw Jones, Albert Pujols)
- 6 are not in the HOF (one of those is Joe Jackson)
Of the 18 retired players, none finished with a career wRC+ less than 112, or a career WAR talley of less than 42.9 (the average of the group is substantially higher).
So do you mean players or outfielders, because Pujols is listed there.
He might mean outfielders. I believe Pujols played plenty of left field that when he first came up ,may have been pulled when he found the data.
He’s looking at the age 20-22 seasons. Albert primarily played outfield at that age.
Correct…I had forgotten that and double-checked that myself before posting.
Felix Hernandez, Brendan Ryan and Brandon League for Jason Heyward, Mike Minor and Tyler Pastornicky. Who hangs up first?
what about putting martin prado at ss?? he already has played 1B and 3B this year why not SS..i think he has a good enough glove to play short if simmons is only going to be out for a few weeks. we could use a mix of matt diaz and eric hinske to cover prado’s spot in LF. i think the team is good where its at i wouldnt wanna give up any of our young guys to try to add some ok player. guess it all depends on how long simmons will be out….
Prado’s not an option for SS. He wouldn’t be good there. 3B is his best defensive position, but he isn’t even that great at 2B. He just is not a shortstop, which is no slight against him. Probably the only position he can’t play.
While completely unrelated to this, what do you take of Uggla’s struggles. I know last year you suggested Uggla strikeout more but what is your view this year? Just a mechanical issue? To me that seems like it could be 1 thing but it seems like a collection of things since his struggles have extended close to 100 ABs and well over 100 PA’s?
Just a slump, he’ll bust out of it. Probably end up with a .240 average this year with ~25 homers and a .370ish OBP. Will end up having a good year offensively, I would bet.
I actually do not think that the call-up will be Pastornicky. I think they will keep him in AAA to “continue to develop as a utility guy”. It could be Josh Wilson as the call-up. I dont have much of a problem with Jack Wilson playing at SS for 3 weeks as our only alternative. While he does not hit, it is likely that consistent AB’s will allow him to improve at least slightly at the plate.
As far as getting Brendan Ryan, that would be fantastic. The scenario laid out that includes Ryan coming in and the Braves then releasing Wilson after Simmons returns is great. The only problem is that Ryan is very highly regarded in Seattle’s organization. Even though it makes little sense, I have a feeling that it might be a bit tougher to pry Ryan away from the M’s than it should be. Giving up literally anything of value for 3-4 weeks of Ryan starting instead of Wilson would not be a good use of resources. In that period of time, the Braves would be lucky if Ryan was even 0.5 wins better than Wilson at SS. Hopefully we can get a 2-3 week window of good baseball from Jack Wilson. Even though he has not done much the past few years in his career, he likely sees this as one of the biggest opportunities he has ever had to help a team reach the postseason (he has never been a part of a team that made the playoffs). Hopefully he can rise to the occasion.
Regarding the rest of the bench, we most definitely need to upgrade our bench. As much as I like Matt Diaz, we need a RHH off the bench who can do more than hit lefties. We need someone with better splits, so he is not completely helpless when he ends up having to face a righty.
What about Cody Ransom as a really cheap temporary SS? Better hitter than Wilson. Not sure about defense, but I assume he is probably significantly better than Pastornicky’s historically bad D.
Willie Bloomquist. 4 errors in 210 chances at SS this year. Career FPCT at SS is only .03 lower than Jack Wilson, who if anyone looks at the stats, isn’t quite the fielder he’s made out to be. Bloomquist is on the bench with Drew returning for Arizona and will be expendable when John MacDonald returns. Bloomquist is owed the prorated portion of $1.9MM for the rest of 2012 and around $1.9MM for 2013. He has also played all 3 OF positions (CF as recently at 2010), all 4 IF positions, but appears to be better suited/more comfortable at SS, 3B, and LF. It’s obvious Diaz won’t be around in 2013, possibly Hinske as well, and this guy could be a suitable righthanded fill in for Diaz and has the chops to play multiple positions.
Yeah I wondered about Bloomquist as well, but the D-backs are only 4 out right now. I think they’ll hang on to him. He’d be a nice pickup though for anyone’s bench. Can play anywhere on the field and does a solid job at shortstop. MLB trade rumors listed him as a potential SS available. It’s actually a pretty sad list. Not much available right now.
^ It may all depend on what they do with Upton. Right now Bloomquist is the 5th OFer and when MacDonald returns, he probably won’t be first in line behind Drew or Hill.
Stop citing fielding percentage.
Thank you! Fielding percentage is useless.
What about Willie Blomquist from Arizona as well? He is a decent hitter and his UZR is slightly below average. He also is probably their 3rd option at SS now with Drew back and McDonald coming back soon too?
Do you think the Braves will try for Upton from D-backs? it would seem like an opportunity to get a right handed bat. Prado/Minor for Upton. the D-backs want a 3b.
I really hope they make a run at Upton. I think they should pull the trigger on a blockbuster. I’m talkin Upton/Bloomquist/Skaggs for Minor/Delgado/Spruill/Bourn/Kubitza. He would add so much to our lineup. Imagine Heyward leading off followed by Prado, Upton, McCann, Freeman, Uggla, Simmons, Francisco? for next year!
I think you would have to be crazy to give up minor, delgado, and bourn for upton. Upton would be an awesome addition but what about our pitching?
Are you kidding me? Get rid of Bourn?? Prado would be gone before bourn and I seriously doubt that Francisco will be starting at 3B next year. I could see Prado and Minor for Upton like the previous guy said, since we have Sheets getting ready in the minors and still have Medlen and Teheran who can be SP’s as well. But getting rid of Bourn should absolutely not be looked at. Plus the Braves are also looking at a possible deal for Greinke too
It’s funny how a post about trading for a low cost 3-6 week defensive replacement SS turns into a blockbuster trade in 40 comments.
I like how everyone feels the need to spell out what the new line-up will look like after acquiring someone. I am capable of visualizing the line-up with Upton instead of Bourne without seeing a revised batting order listed. Not sure why you have Francisco penciled in as starting 3B.
Everything about this comment is ridiculous in my opinion. The Braves would be fools to part with Bourn or Delgado for rentals, reserve role guys.
Delgado yes, but Bourn, maybe not so much. I wish Wren could lock him up on a 3-4 year deal, but it’s looking more and more like Bourn will test the FA market after the year and if he does, I can almost assure you he won’t be in ATL next year. San Francisco is ready to pay him and I can’t see the Braves matching or surpassing the offers he wants/gets.
You’re welcome good sir. I do apologize though, I’m a chronic rosterbator.
Lol
[...] Duronio of Capitol Avenue Club proposed another idea for the team. He believes they should try to trade for Brendan Ryan. “I would like to see the Braves trade for Brendan Ryan to start for the next month or so, [...]
I truly can’t believe that some are suggesting Willie Bloomquist. Why would you give up anything for a player below average at the plate and in the field? Prior to this year, his best year in WAR was a fluke 38 at-bats he had in his rookie year. He is essentially a replacement level player, so why sacrifice anything for performance that is already on your bench or at AA/AAA? And Betancourt is probably worse. He has essentially produced as poorly at the plate over his career as Bloomquist but likely an even worse SS.
That’s the problem. The Braves don’t have anyone on their bench or at AAA who is as good as Bloomquist.
Gator – the reason either of the 2 is being discussed is to a) cover for andrelton simmons while his hand heals and b) to take over jack wilsons roster spot after simmons comes off the DL.
Both are relatively affordable in terms of both $$ and prospects and both are more versatile than senor wilson in the field.
just because you’re trotted out to play a multitude of positions doesn’t mean you’re “versatile” – case in point, Bloomquist. I’m sure if Jack Wilson’s managers threw him all over the field his defensive performance would be just as subpar as Bloomquist’s. As far as Betancourt, about 95% of his innings have come at SS so I’m not sure why he would be viewed as “versatile.” These two guys offer no value and there should be no reason why a team should give up any potential assets for them, let alone one that will be competing for a division title.
Ben Sheets scoreless through 2 innings at AA
5.2 innings, 7 hits, 3 runs, 2 earned, 4 Ks, 0 BBs. 89 pitches, 58 went for strikes. I didn’t watch this but that’s not a bad line at all.
If he makes a couple of more starts like this or better, I say we give him a slot in the rotation.
Chip and Joe said during Sunday’s game that the rotation for next weekend’s series against the Mets was Huddy, Hanson, and then “we’ll see.” Maybe that’s Ben Sheets’ spot. It’s five days of rest away after all.
Just saying, the Rockies are pathetic this year and they need pitching, and the braves have a lot of pitching prospects. They also have a really good shortstop in Tulowitski. Money would probably one of several issues with pulling a trade like that, but it does have some components of being possible.
Just stop talking
Never
Gonna
Happen
The Rockies might trade Marco Scutaro but they would laugh at any offer for Tulo. In fact, I like the idea of trading for Scutaro.
I thought about mentioning Scutaro but he is scheduled to make I think $6 or 8M this year. So essentially Atlanta would have to pay $3-4M for a 3-6 weeks replacement/bench player.
The poll regarding Simmons’ defense is interesting. Those who voted 40-50 are either trying to be funny or don’t understand how the rating system works.
I thought Escobar was a 60-70 when he came up and Simmons is better. He might be the best defensive infielder I’ve seen with the Braves.
Belliard
Everyone assumes the Braves are looking at these blockbuster trades. But, Wren’s history in recent years seems to be that he only pulls the trigger if he can steal someone (Uggla, Bourn). I’m very skeptical that Milwaukee is going to trade Greinke at all given that they are not really that far out of contention. It would not be a good message to send to the fan base. If they do, I suspect they will want a lot. As for Upton, again, I don’t see a trade unless the Braves give up a lot and I think, after having been burned with Teixera, that’s not likely. I think Wren will do something but I remain skeptical at all these stories about blockbusters. The Braves just don’t work that way these days.
I agree, I think the Braves might look to upgrade the awful bench or maybe grab a 3rd or 4th starter type. I don’t think we are going to see an ace or a starter come in. (Maybe we’ll get someone that can also play catcher so that we can FREEROSS!)
Let’s go rescue Barbaro Canizares from Mexico and plug him at SS! Guy’s got wheels!
Or how about Rafael Belliard, I bet he’s still got the glove for the job. Unretire Raffy!
Did I really just read a comment that stated that jack wilson was popular among his team mates? good lord! nothing could be further from the truth. I cannot think of any more unpopular player with his teammates than the narcissist that is jack wilson. Wilson was essentially kicked off the seattle mariners for taking himself out of a game and refusing to report back on the field after making 2 errors in a series against the rangers. And then to make matters worse he lied to the media after the game and told them that he was taken out of the game by manager eric wedge. Eric wedge was so upset that he suspended jack wilson indefinitely. I wouldn’t feel too sorry for a guy who is considered to be 1 of the worst teammates in major league baseball.
As for acquiring ryan he will cost us a pretty penny and for good reason. According to baseball reference ryan is considered to be the most valuable shortstop in baseball. According to fangraphs ryan is considered to be about the eighth most valuable shortstop in major league baseball. Also ryan has a 2.7 defensive war score at the all star break according to baseball reference.
The all time highest dwar was 5.4 which was set in 1906. In other words according to baseball reference which is a highly regarded source, brendan ryan is on pace to have the greatest defensive season in the history of major league baseball this season… again, according to baseball reference… and if ryan comes here it won’t be to play shortstop for the next 4 weeks it will be to play shortstop for the rest of the season.
I bet Frank Wren looks like an ass now trading Sutton away and letting go Hicks who are both tearing it up with the Pirates and A’s .
Can’t the Braves go after Jed Lowrie?
Brendan Ryan is top ten in SS WAR in 2012. He has a cheap salary, another year of control, and Seattle has no viable backup shortstop. I doubt the Braves can have him “cheap”.
He doesn’t have a year of control left. The Braves got Bourn for a discount because one of his main skills, his defense, is difficult to quantify. Not many teams are looking to acquire an all-glove shortstop heading into the playoffs. He can be had for cheap.
What are you talking about? Post season is all about pitching and defense. Going into the playoffs with the best defensive shortstop in either league (and by a fairly wide margin) is a huge advantage.
He DOES INDEED have a year of control left. He is arb eligible for the third time next year. The M’s signed him to a two year contract that bought out his first two arb years, but did not cover year #3.
Bourn and minor for upton. We cant resign bourn….. if we could or were going to, we would have already heard about it. Move heyward back to his natural position in center, upton in right, prado in left. Move a couple young guys to get greinke and suffer through our shortstop woes for a month.
Brendan Ryan for cheap?! HA!!!!!! You’re dreaming! Ryan is the best defensive SS in all of baseball and the Team Leader of this ball club and one of Wedge’s favorite guys. He’s not going anywhere until Nick Franklin is ready. He’s an excellent mentor to our rookies Dustin Ackley, Kyle Seager, and Justin Smoak. No way are you getting your hands on our beloved Ryan!!
I don’t like any talk about trading Bourn and instead would like to see the Braves make any and all efforts to resign him. Prado opened my eyes last night in the brief time he played SS. I wouldn’t trade Minor or Teheran but feel Delgado is a very valuable chip to deal. In addition there is Spruill and the most intriguing piece of value lefty Sean Gilmartin. I would give the Brewers value for Greinke as long as a) they consider that he will walk leaving them with nothing, and b) he signs a long term contract. If those conditions are met then I believe we should offer the Brewers DelGado, Spruill, and a 3rd pice of smaller value. Then we deal Prado and Gilmartin for Justin Upton and then we follow all that with a trip to the World Series.