Braves After Cody Ross
November 13, 2012 at 4:32 pm by Ben Duronio under Atlanta Braves
According to a twitter report from Ken Rosenthal, the Braves are in on free agent outfielder Cody Ross.
I predicted yesterday that Ross would be the left fielder for the team, and while I don’t “love” signing him I also don’t “hate” it either. I kind of like it, actually. What you can expect out of him is essetially a .320 OBP with some power and average defense. That’s not great, but it’s also not terrible.
What makes it appealing to me is his career 141 wRC+ against lefties. That would make him the best hitter on the roster against southpaws. If he stinks against righties, the Braves still have Juan Francisco to put in against them at least on occasion. Those are my quick thoughts, you guys tell me what you think, do you like targeting Cody Ross in free agency?
Loading ...
Just made it to MLBTR. Wouldn’t mind Ross at all either. It seems like we have wanted him for awhile now and he has managed to slip through our hands. MLBTR is projecting 3yrs at $25M. Not bad for a 31 Year old who can play all three OF positions in a pinch.
Nothing against Ross, he’s a valuable player (assuming the contract is reasonable/in the range of what he’s reportedly looking for). But for me it depends on how they would fill CF to give the signing a complete grade. He can’t hurt against the lefties though…. if we get shutout/dominated by a Jamie Moyer type again I’m gonna lose it!
I don’t think CRoss in LF will provide enough offense to improve this team, but if that’s the best Wren can come up with so be it. Replacing Chipper and Bourn with CRoss and any of the previously mentioned cheaper CFers is going to be a few steps backwards offensively. I’m afraid this team can not afford to lose any ground offensively, and there should be no reason to with so much money and trade assets available to Wren this offseason.
I agree that Ross isn’t a terrible option for LF. But, if this is the Braves plan for LF, it reminds me of Jonah Keri’s preseason article last year where he talked about the Braves and (through some odd Japanese cultural comparison) their consistent offseason approach of doing just a little bit less than they should.
Are there worse options than Ross for LF? Sure. But there are better ones too, and it’s a little disappointing if the Braves have already resigned themselves to Ross being their best, legitimate option.
Assuming the report is correct, the FO may be correct in thinking that Ross is the best option within their financial parameters. But again, if that’s the case, it’s disappointing.
He’s kind of just a plus platoon guy. We would have to sign him with starter money–3 years 25 mil as previously mentioned–and have him be the starting left fielder. Right handers obviously make up the majority of major league pitchers, so a right handed hitter who can’t really hit righties is sort of not worth $8 million even though beefing up our hitting from the right side is very important. That being said, I think Prado/Francisco versus righties is much more potent than Prado/Ross, and think a cheaper option can be had to platoon w Juan. Or just get a left fielder that can hit both sides of the mound.
I want to say that I LOVE the idea of getting Ross with the intention of platooning him with Francisco, while moving Prado back and forth between third and left. But like I said, $8mil/year isn’t worth that and at this point Ross wouldn’t sign with a team to be a platoon guy.
Definitely makes some good points. The thing with Free Agency is that that you are typically going to overpay dollar wise. There really isn’t any better options out there in Free Agency that really stand out to me (Swisher and Hunter) that are not going to cost more. I don’t believe that the Braves have the resources to trade for both a corner OFer and a CFer without gutting the farm.
Think he should be a target, definitely. His demands are high, but should come down a bit. Could be better, could be worse.
Don’t hate the idea, but i keep wondering if someone like Kevin Youkilis wouldn’t be a better option as he would be able to spell Freddie every once and a while at 1st and Prado could continue to hold the fort down in left…
How would an outfield of Ross, Span, and Heyward look defensively? I know we wouldn’t have the combined outfield dWAR we had last year, but I feel it would be respectable.
Also, is there a different plan to keep Prado in the outfield and get a 3B?
However, I really want Prado at 3B with Simmons at SS as that could give us great defense on that side of the field.
Meh. To me, a guy that just hits lefties well is not worth 3/25. I’d rather have a cheaper platoon like Vivabeta suggested. I really hope Wren doesn’t settle for Ross.
Considering what the Braves can afford, I’d go with Ross or a trade for Willingham. Pagan and Swisher are going to be overpaid by someone, Hamilton is out of the question. Ludwick is coming off a very good year that I’m not sure he can repeat, and will likely want 2-3 years. Ross will hit about 20 HR and an OPS in between .750-.800. Willingham might hit for a little more power, but he’s had some injury issues in the past. Ross is a safer pick IMO, and like Ben said, you can always play Francisco some vs RHP if Ross is struggling.
I’ll have to wait and see what the move is in CF to be happy with this, should it happen. I don’t have as much of a problem with the player as I do 3/25. That basically means he’s making 2012 Bourn money, and won’t be anywhere near as valuable.
I would like it if you get Hamilton for Center Field, you really think we cam be a Championship Team if we get cody Ross? Can we compete against the phillies or Dodgers or San Francisco with this lind of offense and Starting Pitching? NOT
Didn’t Cody Ross essentially give the Braves the finger last off-season or two ago? Must speak volumes for either the available talent out there for what we can afford or that they believe Ross has a tremendous upside for that kind of money.
Exactly what I was thinking about how Ross related to us before he went to Boston. I think this may be just talk, I don’t think Wren will want to deal with him after that past. I have buddies who played high school and college with him who say he is a selfish turd. As soon as things don’t go his way, like platooning him, he can be a cancer to the rest of the team. I think this is just rumor like Tori Hunter, there are still several options left and I predict Wren to pull off something that nobody sees coming that makes perfect sense. Plus a 31 yo outfielder to help it lefties is not needed at 3 yr/25 million.
I seem to remember that too but wasn’t sure how much was just hearsay. I do think “clubhouse chemistry” is overrated in leading to Ws but at the same time this does seem to be a pretty united team so hopefully if the interest is serious it’s also mutual.
In a perfect world I would much rather have Willingham, but given the mediocrity of the FA OF class he would probably cost a lot to get from the Twinkies.
If we’re going to overpay I’d rather see us do so for a more impact player. As everyone mentioned, Ross would be an awesome platoon but he’s not worth $8 a year to platoon. However, would rather see this move than the Torii Hunter rumors that have swirled a little – hopefully that boobytrap signs in Detroit today.
Cody Ross is just the definition of average. Such a boring signing if it happens, and any chance we can get revere instead of span? I like Revere better.
So the Marlins just traded their entire team to the Blue Jays.
Can’t be too upset with a trade that leaves the Braves with 18 games to play against a depleted team with Yunel Escobar.
For years I said the Marlins would eventually end up somewhere like Charlotte. I thought the new stadium extorted from the taxpayers would keep them there, but I may be ready to dust off my prediction. I don’t know how anyone will show up and give money to these clowns now.
Holy shit, someone on the Marlins is getting trade advice from Bobby!
LOL
if we had the +1 option, you’da gotten 50 from me! that was funny!
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/bobby-cox-toronto-blue-jays-could-blockbuster-trade-lure-him-out-of-retirement-111312
You weren’t kidding!
That’s not the Bobby he was referring to.
I mean…. I knew that…. Of course. But yeah, now I see that that’s hilarious.
I feel bad for Miami taxpayers.
I was wondering if the Braves could resign Bourne and sign BJ Upton for LF. Keep Bourne at leadoff and have BJ bat 2nd in front of Prado. BJ and Bourne would give us a ton of speed defensively and offensively.
One more thing to add. Sign Bourne to a 1-2 year deal, but offer BJ a 4-5 year deal. That way if Bourne starts to show his age, we’ll still have a solid CF in BJ.
Right cause Bourn is gonna agree to a 1-2 year deal. And we have so much money to pay both of their top dollar salaries. Please be realistic.
Funny!
Cody Ross could work out fine.
If Juan Francisco would get his head out of his ass, it could work out great.
I ran numbers based on a platoon, discounted Cody’s HR power for Fenway Park, assumed Francisco played 70% of the time (against righties) and I still came up with 45 home runs.
Fangraphs has a K% and BB% entry in their glossary with a little chart broken down into categories. The lowest is “awful.” Francisco is WORSE THAN AWFUL. I recast his numbers and assumed he was just “below average.” Suddenly his OPS was way north of .900, batting against lefties and righties, as a full time starter. I allocated his “non-strike outs” pretty reasonably between hits, putouts, and walks. So his plate discipline only needs to be below average, for Chris’ sake. Just below average.
Somebody needs to slap the crap out of him and get him to grow up–25 going on 12 is not going to cut it.
So I think Cody Ross would be good, but if Francisco would grow up it could be great. If a platoon works, I have no problem making Cody Ross the highest paid platoon player in history.
Did Francisco sleep with your wife? What the hell has he done to deserve being described like that? He had a reputation of loafing on Cincinnati but I remember no real problems in Atlanta.
Juan certainly has impressively bad plate discipline. I’d love to see him improve in that department, but his lack of discipline may be more than a maturity issue. He may just be bad at differentiating between pitches. I also worry that his success is dependent on his all-or-nothing power approach at the plate, so a change in approach that brings his K% down may also hurt his power. I mean, not necessarily, but it’s a concern.
As a side note, Bill James projections have Juan at .272/308/.502 with a .342 wOBA and .230 ISO, compared to .234/.278/.432 with a .302 wOBA and 0.198 ISO. I think its been pointed out on this site that James tends to make optimistic projections, so make of this what you will.
(compared to 2012 I mean)
Could someone who knows how to read defensive stats tell me about Francisco. When I looked, the numbers for him and for Chipper last year looked about the same.
Anybody?
UZR says he’s about average (2.3 UZR over 654.2 inn at 3rd) DRS (defensive runs saved) has him at a net 1 for those same innings.
not great, not horrible, avg defense.
granted ,this is a small sample size, and he could end up going up or down long term.
This is classic Liberty Mutual payroll Braves. Get the “under the radar” guy and hope he provides plus service. Honestly im tired of the LF merry go round. Bourne is going, and unless we give him a 3rd of our payroll hes not coming back. BJ is probably the best option after Bourne, and IF you sign him, Ross can be a nice professional hitter that can bridge lineup gaps. Or you go after Justin, move him to LF, and sacrifice the speed for a deeper power core of Upton, Heyward, McCann, Uggla, Freeman in any particular order. Either Simmons or Prado leads off or if you can swing a deal for Victorino/Pagan you have leadoff covered. One of the Uptons and then a Ross type player can make our offseason look pretty damn good.
If I was Wren I’d be on the phone with Miami and asking who I had to blow and who I had to give to get Stanton.
Honestly, I’d pretty much give them wtvr prospects they wanted for him.
I was thinking this very same thing today, but surely they aren’t dumb enough for that.
Would be awesome though!
I compared Ross to doing it with an ugly girl on a braves fB group I’m on, sure it fulfills a need, but you don’t really want to look at it for too long….
I reckon Wren is doing diligence in case other options don’t come together.
Now hang on i would like cody ross he cheap and hes played well in 12 and 11 plus HES CHEAP so we can spend more money on a lead off center fielder
I’m late to this party, but I think we are missing a key part of the argument. We have to consider our assets.
1) We have a 3B who can mash righties
2) We have a 3B/LF with plus defense who can hit both sides
If we sign an everyday LF or 3B, we give up the value of #1. I think this is out of the question for a cash-strapped team. Having Francisco as insurance “in case” Ross struggles is not sufficient. In that case, Francisco’s value is reduced to that of an insurance policy.
The only option is to sign a lefty masher who can play LF or 3B to platoon in the Prado/Francisco mix. Otherwise, the comparison isn’t Ross vs other LF options. The comparison is Ross/Prado vs Prado/Francisco. I doubt you get 1 marginal win out of your $8 million in that case, and that’s just a bad expenditure. If resigning Reed Johnson is possible, a Prado/Franscisco/Johnson platoon would probably be better than a Ross/Prado arrangement and for less money.
This is pretty much my previously stated argument. I’m glad you agree!
Though I would be happier with some power to platoon in LF a la Johnny Gomes. If we end up with a ++ defensive center fielder, I could live with having a defensive liability in LF for 1/3 of the season.
As for Juan’s defense at 3B, if he commits to his off-season conditioning (which he said he would) his range can and should increase a good deal.
I’m not 100% on Ross because of his lack of defense and his shunning of the braves in the past. But the one thing i will give him is that he is a clutch hitter, which is something we need. If we can’t have bourne in CF i would go after pagan. Last thing trade for chase headly and lv prado in the OF with pagan and jhey.
As far as Ross, I’m not sure he’s that much of an upgrade over a Prado/Juan/Reed platoon as others have mentioned, especially if that would free up enough money to bring Bourne back. Personally I’m on the Headley bandwagon too. Would think Juan, Julio or Delgado, and another could get it done. Then sign a Victorino type for center. Would be a pretty stout and balanced lineup:
Victorino
Prado
Heyward
Headley
Freeman
Uggla
McCann/Backup C
Simmons
For reasonable money, yes. The numbers away from Fenway scare me.
Instead of C Ross in LF against LH’s, why not Jonny Gomes for crushing LH’s and Francisco at 3B against RH’s. Gomes will sign for less years and much less $$.
Have no problem with Cody Ross as our starting left fielder next year. If you break it down, the lineup really is not that much different. My predicted lineup for opening day would be as follows:
1) Justin Upton( or BJ Upton)
2) Martin Prado
3)Brian McCann
4) Jason Heyward( The way he hit last year, he deserves it)
5) Freddie Freeman
6)Dan Uggla
7) Cody Ross
8) A. Sammons
9) Hudson
Next year the Braves will be better than they were this year. They are going to continue to improve and in due time you will see Chipper back in a Braves uniform… only as a coach!
McCann as the #3 hitter is comical at best. Freddie, will hit clean-up unless he is hitting 3rd, which I think he would be effective doing if he is healthy…hand and eyes.
That may be a good way to get B Mac back on track, but I think Heyward was hot last year because he was in that 3 spot. I would not move him from that, again unless it is Bmac that needs a little shake up to get back to his old form.
Have no problem with Cody Ross as our starting left fielder next year. If you break it down, the lineup really is not that much different. My predicted lineup for opening day would be as follows:
1) Justin Upton( or BJ Upton)
2) Martin Prado
3)Brian McCann
4) Jason Heyward( The way he hit last year, he deserves it)
5) Freddie Freeman
6)Dan Uggla
7) Cody Ross
8) A. Sammons
9) Hudson
Next year the Braves will be better than they were this year. They are going to continue to improve and in due time you will see Chipper back in a Braves uniform… only as a coach!
who do you have in CF on that roster? surely not Ross, Justin Upton or Heyward?
hudson…
The Upton’s are not leadoff hitters, more like 3-5 range in a lineup. You have no CF in there. The best would be Heyward but we wont add that extra wear and tear to him for that. Also, who the hell is Sammons, do you mean Simmons. Also you would never see a lineup that goes R,R,L,L,L,R,R,R. Even Fredi would not do that. It would end up more R,L,R,L,R,L,R,R.
Maybe that’s Clint Sammons you have batting eighth? Is McCann at 1st and Freeman in CF?
If we do sign Ross to 3/25, we no longer have money for any Upton’s. Considering we fill some other holes with depth or another bullpen arm, once of them would have to sign a contract around $9mil. Not possible when teams will be offering somewhere between 12-15 annually.
McCann will not be in the opening day lineup, so please try again.
They won’t get either of the Upton brothers and really don’t like them leading off either.
I would sign Shane Victorino to lead off even though people against it but I think we can get a bargain price for his bad year.
A Ross/Francisco quasi-platoon makes sense if the Braves are saving money to throw at Bourn. However, If they get a sub-$5M guy like Ross and then go cheap at CF as well, a lot of fans will be disappointed.
I worry about Victorino because of his age (32). He had a big season in 2011, but generally he’s been a 3-4 WAR type of guy. That’s fine, but I wouldn’t want to sign him for more than three years.
BJ Upton lacks the defense that Bourn and to a lesser extent Victorino provide, but has more power, and is younger. He’s certainly not a leadoff hitter (low OBP), but is a good offensive player.
If the Braves look to trade I hope its with the Twins or D’Backs and they go after 2 outfielders in each case.
From Twins
R LF Willingham. Righty to hit in heart of order, add power.
L CF Revere or Span. Needed leadedoff hitter in either case.
From D’Backs
R LF Upton. Righty to hit in heart of order, add power.
L CF/LF Parra. Lefty poss leadoff and great defensive value.
The Upton trade would take a more but they both would take alot to get done and I don’t know if it will happen. I don’t mind trading any prospects. The only off limit prospect for me would be Teheran. I don’t mind Delgado + a couple other top prospects if it lands our team two needed players. If we could resign Johnson as well then when we faced a tough lefty we could sub in him for Parra, Revere, or Span if we had them.
All make believe GM work but its what I would like.
Possible line ups
If D’Back Trade If Twin Trade
L Parra
Dammit hit the wrong button.
If D’Back Trade If Twin Trade
L Parra L Span/Revere
R Prado R Prado
L Heyward L Heyward
R Upton R Willingham
L McCann L McCann
R Uggla R Uggla
L Freeman L Freeman
R Simmons R Simmons
Instead of Ross, why not Jonny Gomes? Cheaper and mashes lefties. Sure a little defense is lost, but match him with Roadrunner.
The whole Ross thing just kind of puts a damper on the expectations for the offseason. Before, I would have loved to put Parra in CF and go after a power guy in left. But with Ross, there is basically no one that we can pursue that hits for power, as we’ve limited ourselves to CF prospects. BJ Upton is a slight power threat, but I was never too big on him because of his OBP and defensive problems. Depending on how you look at Heyward and depending on how McCann bounces back, we may not have 1 player capable of hitting 30 HRs. We’ve gone too long without a legitimate power bat. We need a guy that at the very least puts pressure on pitchers due to their power.
We have 3 guys capable of hitting 30 depending on how you view Heyward:
Uggla
Freeman
McCann (Walk years, for some reason, bring out the beast in everybody))
Get Bonifacio from Toronto… he will lead the majors in steals and his hitting continues to improve. He’s unreal and he’s cheap still. He plays 2nd, SS, 3rd, and OF… A one-two punch of Bonifacio/Bourn at the top of the line-up would be impressive.
If he rekindles his 2010 World Series bat, that’s fine with me!
This move would thoroughly disappoint me. From what I understand, Ross is an average defender, gets on base at a .320 clip, has questionable character, and has only proven to be a successful hitter against left-handers, with his only slightly remarkable season occurring while playing in one of the best hitter’s ballparks in the league. Surely we can find that for less than 8 million dollars over three years.
I think I understand when Wren says that we don’t have as much money as we’d like to believe with Chipper and Bourne coming off the boooks, and when he says that he’d prefer to fill two positions with quality players instead of spending all of our surplus on one player, and I agree with it. But I don’t think that means you dish out 8 millions dollars each to get two players whose value you could probably obtain through more creative alternatives.
As a final thing to say–I wouldn’t mind if the braves dealt Teheran. I understand scouts and magazines have been hyping this guy for years, but it shouldn’t be ignored that he took a big step backwards this year, and has never put together even a decent looking outing in his major league spot starts. In fact, I think Delgado has shown that he is much closer to being a serviceable minor leaguer. As I daydreamed at work, I thought of the following scenario, and I’m sure it’s wild and would never happen, but here it is: Sign Greinke, trade Teheran, Hanson, Uggla for a top hitter at OF/3B(not sure if it would get it done for J. Upton, but perhaps N. Cruz/J. Ellsbury/A. Rios/C. Headley), sign light-hitting, strong defense players at 2b and CF (fairly easy to find/ provides significant value–maybe a trade to get Brendan Ryan and Franklin Guittierez from Seattle?). Upgrade bigtime at defense, add a power bat, maintain rotation, without adding huge $$. Am I crazy haha?
Yes you are.
Why not Jonny Gomes? He’s cheaper and doesn’t possess a Fenway split.
If Wren was going to choose the platoon route, I was hoping for Gomes. Much cheaper than Ross and absolutely murders lefties. Questionable facial hair, though. And I’m not sure I’ve fully recovered from the Reed Johnson facial hair thing… I just need more time.
I’m still nauseous from us signing Scott Spiezio to a minor league deal a few years ago.
So this trade with the Marlins and Jays gives Toronto some extra players that may be useless to them. Unfortunately, none of them are very good. The only one I could see making sense would be JP Arencibia to become our backup C as well as our C to start the season. They now have Buck and D’Arnaud, and Arencibia was less than they expected. He should be easy to obtain, and is at least an average defender with huge power potential. He’s also still young enough to MAYBE reach his potential. Colby Rasmus is the other, but my god, his numbers are horrid. Their rotation is useless outside of Drabek, so no one there. Possibly Rajai Davis? But he wouldn’t be anything more than abench player in ATL.
Cody Ross is not worth that money – plain and simple. I’d much rather go with a cheaper platoon and see what’s available next winter. Just because we have Chipper’s money burning a hole in our pocket doesn’t mean we should spend it.
My bet is to get Willingham and Span from Minnesota, but it would require letting go of Delgado/Teahran most likely. I do not think a package of Gilmartin/Spruill/Lipka[Cunningham] would be enough to get both guys. Maybe 2 of them get 1 of those guys.
Ideally, I want Willingham and Parra, but again, I think we have to depart with our top two pitching prospects. If we end up on Ross, I would not hate the move but like Ben, I would not love it.
I think the Braves should get in on this ultra dump that the Marlins are doing. Some how try to get Giancarlo Stanton and moe J Hey to CF. I know its probably not realistic but you know the guy wants out now that they have traded everyody, and who knows the Marlins might be stupid enough to trade him for some prospects.
why move Heyward to CF? If you get Stanton you put him in LF (he’s good but not quite the defender that Jason is) and you still go after Span for CF. It’s not like Stanton costs $10mill a season or anything.No need to start saving money by moving players around.
The Marlins are dumping high salaries. Stanton isn’t a free agent till 2017. They aren’t trading him.
Would rather have Willingham in left. Braves would be smart to trade Tommy Hanson. The guy isn’t the same anymore. Twins are desperate for pitching. Surely we can get it done. I’m not sold on Span though.
LF- Willingham (trade Tommy Hanson and/or prospects)
CF- Shane Victorino
you do realize that other GM’s have access to the same info as we do right? They don’t live under the delusion that Hanson is what he was 2 years ago. True he still has value, but no way Hanson and a few low pieces get us Willingham.
The Braves should not trade Hanson this offseason because his value is so low. There is a good chance he never bounces back but there is a chance. It’s not like he is owed a large salary and it would be nice to dump it. I eexpect us to trade Delgado while he still has pretty good value. Our rotation will be Medlen, Hudson, Maholm, Minor and Hanson/Teheran next year until Beachy returns. Say we pitch Hanson until Beachy gets back, if he does well we can either keep him and look to move someone else. At least then he has value. If he sucks then we don’t need him and we could dump him for similar value we would right now.
The Minneapolis press has suggested a Teheran for Willingham deal. They also sugggest that Hansen or Maholm would get Span. Either or both deals would be worth pursuing.
Definitely Trade Hanson+JJ to the twins for Span (Remember the old days when Hanson could have been traded for almost anybody straight up?) that covers CF. Ellsbury, while i love him as a player, is going to be a FA next year, and he’s a Boras client. So we give Red Sox a haul of talent to keep him one year? Negative. IF Francisco really gets in shape, I have no problem having him play 3B, and leaving Prado in LF.
Headley will not be pried from San Diego, Pagan will stay in SF, Ludwick cannot hit lefties, don’t think C. Ross likes Atlanta, Hamiliton too expensive, Bourn same, don’t like either Upton, Marlins will not let Stanton go especially to division rival. Best options for CF and lead-off is either Fowler or Span, Minnesota keeping Revere. For LF I like Willingham, good right handed power bat. Line-up: Span CF, Prado 3rd, Heyward RF, Willingham LF, Freeman 1st, Uggla 2nd, McCann C, Simmons SS, Pitcher. Knowing Braves we will end up with McClouth in CF and lead-off and Jason Bay in LF. We will see!!
Does anyone have a guess what we will do at catcher while McCann is out to start next year. I don’t think we could get away with Gattis and Bethancourt wearing the same uniform. Running Bethancourt out to catch and Gattis to hit without getting caught.
Does anyone have a guess what we will do at catcher while McCann is out to start next year. I don’t think we could get away with Gattis and Bethancourt wearing the same uniform. Running Bethancourt out to catch and Gattis to hit without getting caught. We could call him Evian Bettis or Christvan Gatcourt.
pick up one of the many cheap catchers from this list :
Rod Barajas (37)
Henry Blanco (41)
Gerald Laird (33)
Dioner Navarro (29)
Mike Nickeas (30)
Miguel Olivo (34)
Ronny Paulino (32)
Humberto Quintero (33)
Brian Schneider (36)
Kelly Shoppach (33)
Chris Snyder (32)
Yorvit Torrealba (34)
Matt Treanor (37