A Couple Of Winter League Notes
December 11, 2012 at 9:20 am by Andrew Sisson under Atlanta Braves
Braves GM Frank Wren, manager Fredi Gonzalez, and other top assistants traveled down to the Dominican this weekend to get an in-person look at a handful of Braves players. The Braves currently have four players on the Tigres del Licey club: Julio Teheran, Randall Delgado, Juan Francisco and Christian Bethancourt.
The first three names will likely have an impact with the Braves in 2013. I was able to watch the Saturday (Delgado) and Sunday (Teheran) afternoon games via Internet stream. During these games, I recorded some innings and plate appearances and later went back to jot down some notes. I thought I’d pass along some of my observations.
I just want to reinforce that these are my observations of a handful of innings in the Dominican Winter League. The league itself is a mixed bag of solid prospects and legitimate MLB players, but also has its fair share of scrubs. Everything should be taken in with small sample size in mind. Personally, I wouldn’t put too much stock into many of these stats (some are still useful like K and BB rates).
Julio Teheran:
Teheran looked good. He finished the game with a line of 6IP, 1H, 0ER, 0BB (1 HBP), 8K on 73 pitches, continuing his dominance over the past three starts. So far, he has pitched a total of 30.2 innings, posting a 3.23 ERA with a 24/9 K/BB ratio.
His fastball sat between 94-95 and possessed great command for the first four-ish innings. He was constantly down in the zone and on the corners, once beautifully painting the corner at 95 for strike three. That command began to fade later in the game, as he started to leave his fastball up in the zone.
Teheran’s off-speed was also fairly impressive. His curveball was getting good downward movement and was able to induce a couple of swing and misses on balls low and in the dirt. His changeup was between 79-81 and featured good movement.
What was most impressive with Teheran was that he was able to punch out eight batters, while rarely going deep into the count. He breezed through the first five innings sitting at 59 pitches (15 balls, 44 strikes). As I previously mentioned, as he got deeper into the game, it looked as if he was either tired or just got a little out of control with his delivery. In the fifth, he was up 0-2 and proceeded to hit the batter up in the hands with a fastball. In the sixth, he was noticeably up in the zone, which forced him into multiple full count situations. Two of the outs wound up being on very hard hit balls. Leaving the ball up in the zone and trying to overthrow seems to be where he struggled in 2012.
Randall Delgado:
Delgado was not as impressive as Teheran, but still pitched well. He finished his outing with a line of 5IP, 4H, 2ER, 1BB, 6K. So far, he’s totaled 24.2 innings with a 5.11 ERA and a 25/9 K/BB ratio.
Delgado struggled with his fastball control for stretches. It sat in the low 90’s most of the game, but was on and off with it’s location. In the fourth, he walked former Brave Mauro Gomez on four straight pitches and then was tagged for a double by Indians catcher Carlos Santana. He seemed noticeably frustrated with the home plate umpires zone at times.
I was impressed with his off-speed stuff, especially his changeup, which hovered around 78-80. It was a solid velocity differential from his fastball and appeared to have great arm side movement. He was able to induce a lot weak contact (6 groundouts/2 flyouts) and even a couple of swing and misses.
Juan Francisco:
For starters, the Braves official twitter account posted a picture of Francisco over the weekend along side Gonzalez and Bethancourt. He looked visibly thinner in the picture, which goes along with the reports that he has been working with a personal trainer this winter to lose weight. You can be the judge here (left).
Francisco hit cleanup for the Licey team in both games. So far in 108 at-bats, he’s posted a .315/.375/.565 slash line, with 7 HR’s and a 11/31 BB/K ratio. He is currently leading the Dominican League with a .940 OPS. From what I saw, he looked similar to the Juan we saw in Atlanta this season. As you’d expect, he had a very hard, pull-heavy swing (he lost his bat into the stands once). Overall, he did make some solid contact that resulted in a couple hard hit balls.
Again, this is a very small sample so it’s tough to put much, if any, weight into this. The numbers do look good, but I would avoid getting too giddy and temper the expectations until we see him in the spring for a month. If anything, a slimmed down Francisco is the strongest take away. This would also undoubtedly improve his range at third, where he already possesses a very strong-arm.
It was cool to catch a couple of games that featured Braves players who should make important contributions during the 2013 season. As of now, Teheran and Delgado will be fighting for the fifth spot in the rotation until Brandon Beachy returns near the end of July. Personally, I prefer Teheran. I like his ability to have better feel for all three pitches along with his higher ceiling. I still see Francisco as a very good bench option for now and expect the Braves to find a left fielder which will move Martin Prado to third.
We’ll have to keep an ear out for what Wren and Co. took away from this weekend’s trip.
Update (12/12): Here is the AJC story from Carroll Rogers about the trip to the Dominican with quotes from Wren. Mark Bowman’s story on the trip can be found here.
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I don’t think Francisco has lost any weight but who cares? Look at Sandoval, that guy might as well be the prototypical 3B.
It looks to me like he lost a decent bit of weight. Prototypical 3B or 1B? Not sure big dudes are the wave of the future.
Some of you may have seen my rantings at AJC about the benefits of a Reed Johnson/Juan Francisco platoon.
Does anyone know how to find out how many times Francisco has been called upon to pinch hit against a lefty? Very rarely, if ever, I would think. But I can’t find a split stat which shows that.
If you assume he has never pinch hit against a lefty, and break out his pinch hit numbers (which are pitiful), the platoon line, based on career numbers, looks like this:
.307/.359/.524/.883
If he has ever pinch hit against a left, you would have to adjust these numbers by a couple of points.
Andrew, thanks for the write up. I hope Teheran and Francisco can continue to show out like this in the Spring.
Where do you stream the games from? I’ve looked around and not found much, but that is probably just me being internets incapable.
Ahh yes, I probably should have put up a link. All the broadcasts are in Spanish.
http://www.licey.com/multimedia/television.html
I think if Juan F gets 500 PAs at 3B next year, he hits 25+ HRs.
Trick is, how many times does he K?
Who cares?
People who want the Braves to win care. We’ve already got three guys in Heyward, Freeman, and Uggla that strike out a lot. It should be fairly obvious to you that striking out is a worse outcome than putting the ball in play. Not all outs are created equal.
The guys on 1st and 3rd with 1 out that end up with the ‘WTF Juan?’ face.
Clint – and Upton coming on board adds quite a few more Ks to the mix.
Who cares if his OBP stays north of about .315? Unless you like to eat Joe Simpson and Crap Carey’s “productive out” bullshit.
You mean like a sacrific fly or advancing the runner (w/ less than 2 outs)? I thought they were pretty universally accepted as productive in the game of baseball.
Well if you listen to Joe and Chip, you would think that a “productive” out is better than a hit or a walk. A guy who “always gets a productive out” is either just generally good or generally bad.
fans freak out about K’s wayyyy too much. They simply don’t matter as much as you think they do, let’s look at 2 players and you tell me which one you’d like:
player A had a slash of .252/.327/.514 with 155 K’s 633 PA’s
player B had a slash of .264/.332/.365 with 49 K’s in 615 PA’s
I think it’s obvious that A striking out over 3 times as much as B didn’t hurt his offensive production, nor did a lack of K’s help B.
K’s are a situational good or bad thing. There is no such rule as a “good or bad out”. It’s a myth
Oh, I forgot to add this:
A= Jay Bruce
B= Carlos Lee
Also, refer to Ben’s article about how “Uggla needs to strike out more often” about midway through the 2011 season. When Uggla’s K numbers were down, it just meant that he was weakly hitting a lot of balls. Bloopers, dribblers, scragglers, etc.
I’m also enjoying Nick inadvertently help w evidence in favor of Fat Juan starting at 3B!
Whoops.. That was Nick S saying later on in the thread that Juan should never be considered as a starter and not NickB. My mistake.
Ok….I play softball highly competitive softball. the game is not the same but there are similarities. In softball if you take a walk it counts as a hit. In Baseball if you take a walk, you increase your OPS……The reason that is in both sports is because you are helping the team you are put it on the next person. I big inning can be started because some took a walk. These are team sports. yes strikeouts are not too much of a big deal but if you are striking out all the time who are you helping?
Of course he will. The sad thing is he will only have that same 25+ hits this year
I’m very relieved that Teheran has righted the ship. Hopefully he will show up in the Spring pitching lights-out.
Maybe with the option picked up, Fredi will look into buying some slack that actually fit him…
Nice post Andrew and thanks for the thoughts. It does look to me like Juan has slimmed up. If anything, maybe he’s just more toned now. Seemed to be a bit “fluffy” last year.
So for this year, we have in the rotation:
Hudson
Medlen
Maholm
Minor
Teheran/Delgado
Beachy (when he gets back)
I was against the Vizcaino/Maholm deal when it happened because I viewed it as a short sighted trade that would stunt the growth of our untouchable prospects who now sit in AAA for another year while we lose one of our former untouchables. The Vizcaino for Vazquez deal was highway robbery and we flushed that down the toilet. Not to mention we keep drafting pitchers in the early rounds like it’s going out of style. At what point do we just have too many ace pitching prospects and nowhere to put them?
Do we see a trade giving away one of our prospects or preferably Maholm around the time Beachy comes back?
I saw Juan from about 5 feet away in San Francisco in August. The guy has definitely shed about 15lbs.
Teheran has always seemed to lose it in the 5th and onwards. That’s pretty much been his MO whenever he has been called up for a spot start. It’s 4-5 innings of almost no-hit ball, and then 1-2 innings of getting shelled.
Which tells me it might be best that he just be used out of the bullpen. A true top-flight starter gets better the longer he’s in there. If his control, command, and arm-strength decline as he gets into the 5th inning (and only after 60+ pitches), it might be best to move that guy to the bullpen and maximize his effectiveness in shorter stints. Teheran is showing he may never be a guy who goes 7+ innings, so why not have him play a similar role to that of Cristhian Martinez instead…?
Teheran probably loses his stuff becasue of his slight build. He just isn’t built yet to be a workhorse that can go 200 innings per year. Hopefully, that is something he can build up to.
If he wins the 5th slot in the rotation this spring there is nothing wrong with having your 5th starter only go 5-6 innings while he gets his feet wet at the MLB level. Fredi just needs to do a good job of recognizing when Teheran is losing it and get him out of there before the wheels fall off.
Francisco has dominated the Dominican winter leagues for several years now. It has never translated to MLB success in the past, and it probably won’t this season either. He is still going to be the all or nothing guy with tons of Ks and a very low OBP.
JFran should not be part of the plan at 3B in any way, shape, or form. He is a cheap LHed bench bat, and nothing more.
He hasn’t really started on a consistent basis in the majors yet. His numbers as a starter last year were much better than his bench numbers. I think his K rate could be limited with an occasional platoon vs lefties. Otherwise I think he could put up 250 / 320 / 470.
I agree with this
If Teheren becomes the 5th starter this upcoming spring it would be important for Gonzales to skillfully be able to relieve him when Teheren starts to lose it. He hasn’t displayed that managerial skill often. With a solid and deep bullpen and a willingness for Freddi to adjust his decision making, perhap Teheran could actually be supported in excelling in 2013. My hope is that Freddi’s learning curve about when Teheren needs to come out and when he needs to stay in and be challenged doesn’t cost the Braves needless losses.
Nick, you said it better than me.
Actually that’s one area where I don’t have a complaint w Fredi. He’s pretty good at pulling pitchers, whether it’s Delgado or Hudson.
I think he got a little trigger happy with Minor though. pulling him with 2 out in the 6th, nobody on and he gives up a weak grounder to RF, happened several times last year.
I know that these guys are young but when do they get any time off? Perhaps the reason Tehran tires is because he hasn’t had any time off in 3 years.
I could see Atlanta bringing Teheran along this year like LAD did with Kerhaw, just have it let it rip for 6 innings but that pretty much be it. I’d rather see Juan and someone be an inverted platoon than any of the guys out there that seem to be available that are true “starters”. I read on mlbtr a few days ago that the CHW saw Dayan Viciedo as moveable, he and Juan could easily hit 40hr between them
As a die hard fan of both Licey and the Braves, it is awesome to see those guys playing with Licey. Sadly the team is currently in last place and will likely miss the playoffs in a league that has 6 teams, 4 of which reach the playoffs. As for the league having “a fair share of scrubs”, true… but baseball in DR is what football has become in the US, if you don’t bring your A game the media will rip you appart and you will be cut. There is a lot of competitiveness and a lot of pride going on. It’s a great league, and in my opinion it’s at or slightly above triple A level.
Thanks for the insight. I believe that is what happened with Pastornicky, he was “cut” from the Toros del Este club. I can imagine it does get competitive down there.
I was looking for the minor league equivalent. For some reason I thought I remembered hearing it was somewhere between Double-A and Triple-A, but couldn’t find anywhere to back that up, so thanks!
That was my understanding as well… slightly below to roughly Triple-A level. And, with so many players (ex. Teheran, Delgado, Francisco, Carlos Santana, Gomez, etc.) that have spent a good amount of time in Triple-A and even the Majors, it stands to reason.
longtime Reds fan here…need to check which date I had in the pool for “Juan Francisco has lost some weight and is in the best shape of his life.”
Good deal. We’ll also need to check which dates we had in our pool for when a Reds fan would come over looking for the “Juan Francisco has lost some weight and is in the best shape of his life.”
Bethancourt definitely looks as though he has the physique of a power hitter.
Lest we forget, Juan is still just 25 with only 360 MLB at-bats under his belt. The guy has a little more time to get it right before we give up on him. Ryan Howard was older than this before he figured it out.
With the Reds picking up Choo, the market for FA outfielders is really taking shape. It really does look like FW will go into the festive season as is and wait to see which FAs are unsigned before spring to decide what to do.
Nothing wrong with that, good to have some cash for a change as we close out 2012.
We have all read Rangers is a favorite to pick up Hamilton but I wonder where will Bourn end up? (No! I am not suggesting it will be us)
…I think you forgot about Jose Constanza.
Also, no mention of Gattis and Mejia, playing in the Venezuelan Winter League…? I believe both leagues are graded out to play like a strong AAA league, from what I’ve read.
I can’t wait until LA has to change their name to the Albatrosses in 3-4 years.
Is it just me, or is it completely dead on the Braves home-front lately? I mean, ever since Wren stated he wasn’t going to make any knee-jerk decisions in LF and would even be inclined to stand pat and try internal option, there has been absolutely nothing going on… not even rumblings.
What rumblings would there be? The roster is more or less set with the exception of LF, which could possibly already be set.
Um… maybe that we’re talking to certain players and teams?
Apparently we were pretty aggressive after Choo but didn’t want to top the Red’s offer. That’s a pretty substantial rumbling that the Braves are still looking for a trade, but are wisely not willing to overpay.
Yeah I posted that before the news broke of that pursuit.
Well I’m glad the baseball gods were so quick to respond with some reassurance for you that the Braves are still working behind the scenes. They apparently don’t like me as much. I never get any answers from them.
Panicking to acquire a left-fielder would be a bad idea. A three-man platoon of Prado, Francisco and Johnson with Prado playing every day (alternating between left and third) should be viable. I would love to see what El Nino Destructo could do with 400 or so PA.
I curious as to why there are so many people against this idea. The splits work out to two pretty decent ballplayers this way.
I don’t think people are necessarily against the idea as much as they just wanted to see a proven everyday LF’er brought in. If one is not available in our price range that Wren & Co. believe to be a good fit, then by all means, the trio would likely work fine.
With that said, part of the reason for wanting to bring in a LF’er was to add a true lead-off batter. If we don’t get one and do go with the trio, the team is left with a likely Prado or Simmons lead-off. Not saying that is a bad situation or anything, just think it goes back to wanting a true, proven lead-off hitter.
Bringing in someone to play “everyday” for the sake of playing everyday is just dumb. Juan hits righties which means he would be a “75% of the days” player. He could also possibly hit lefties given some plate time against them.
Viva… I swear you’re on here just to start shit with people.
I never once implied that we should bring in an everyday player just because he plays everyday. My only point was that some might believe we should bring someone in that is a ture LF’er, plays on a daily basis, and does have a negative split.
In other words, not needing to do platoon splits with 3 players.
*doesn’t*
I don’t think we should get too fixated on “true leadoff hitter” definitions. Too many old school guys (like Fredi) just think it should be someone fast like Bourn, but I think this has shifted as people begin to realize the importance of OBP and the fact that the leadoff hitter gets the most PAs and therefore needs to be one of your best hitters.
To that end, Prado’s career OBP is higher than Bourn’s (.345 vs. .339) and his K/BB ratio is much better at about 1.5/1 vs. 2.5/1. Sure Prado doesn’t “seem” like a leadoff hitter but the numbers bear out that the Braves wouldn’t do worse at all (and maybe even better) year over year.
I think there’s some feeling that having Prado play a different position everyday would be difficult for him, and his play would suffer. I have no idea whether this is true.
People in general tend to want to know what their work roles are; I see no particular reason why baseball players should be any different.
I would be ok with the Braves standing pat and starting the season with Prado in LF and Francisco at 3rd. Francisco’s numbers last year were much better when he started versus when he pinch hit, and if he’s really listening to what the Braves’ coaches are telling him I think he deserves a shot at showing what he can do as an everyday 3rd baseman. If he underperforms, the Braves have the financial flexibility to make virtually any trade they want, be it a new 3rd baseman or corner outfielder. The lineup would still have great balance with 4 LH starters and 4 RH starters, plus whoever is catching at the beginning of the season. Bottom line is Francisco has earned a chance to start, and I believe the Braves will give him that chance.
Been busy so I didn’t see this until today. Wren’s thought’s on the trip down to the Dominican.
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2012/12/11/braves-gm-wren-encouraged-by-dominican-trip/?cxntfid=blogs_atlanta_braves_blog
here’s a blog I wrote about Francisco as 3B starter :http://www.chopnation.com/boards/blog.php?b=1349
In summation, he could be a 3+WAR player if he would just shave a couple of pts off his K% and add a couple of pts to his BB%. Which, he DID do in July and August
I just spent a short while over in Talking Chop. Big mistake. Ugh.
Their content is usually good, it’s just the comments that aren’t worth reading.
Has anyone seen a WBC roster, or has it still not been set?
One of the writers seriously listed Nelson Cruz (19th worst WAR ’12) and Kelly Johnson (13th worst WAR ’12) as better options than Juan.
But I’m still giddy that Philly just traded 2 players and $7.2m for the guy who had the number 1 WORST WAR in 2012 to play 3B. Yes, he was even worse than Frenchy!
You do realize that guy is only 1 year removed from a .338/.380/.474 line with 11 HRs and 106 RBI worth a 2.1 WAR?
He has a career line of .301/.347/.444 and has been worth 22 wins over his career.
Giving up prospects and for Young and money was not a bad deal…
Yeah I think it’s a pretty horrible deal to give up players and 8+ million dollars for an old player who just finished LAST in WAR this past season, when your entire team looks like it was assembled from the VFW hall. They’re old. You don’t want your team to get older and hope that someone can bounce back from such an awful season at age 36. He was also playing in Texas where he was a DH for 72 games, and is one of the worst defensive players in all of baseball. These guys usually don’t get better.
I don’t think Kelly Johnson is the worst idea in the world. Sure, he had a bad 2012, but a lot of that was caused by an abnormally low UZR, and in the five previous years, he had three solid ones and on really good year. I don’t think he’s definitively better than Francisco, and I think Juan definitely has more upside, but Kelly Johnson would be a nice piece to fill out the roster if he’s not too expensive. I could see him being a bench bat, but I could also see him getting more time than Francisco/Reed Johnson if he rebounds a bit. He is certainly better at hitting same-handed pitchers than either of them. I don’t think he should be guaranteed a starting job, but it’s not hard to see him being a better option than the other too.
That being said, I don’t think the Braves would go back to Johnson, but if we aren’t making any more major moves, I think he would be a good final bench bat/contender for playing time with Francisco/Reed.
No he isn’t the worst option, we could offer Delmon Young a multi-year deal.THAT is the worst option!lol
KJ has some value at 2B, but in a corner OF spot in a neutral park I think he’s damn near replacement level.
Yep.. 0.2 WAR in 142 games is pretty much the definition of replacement level.
I am in the “Juan Francisco at 3B” camp.
I am in the “well if we have to settle for Francisco at 3B it probably won’t turn out horrible” camp. I would prefer a solid 3WAR guy for LF, but not at the price of an overpay in $$$ or prospects. If Francisco has to start 130 games I expect he would post 2+WAR
Wren also said recently that he might get more for his money to wait until mid-season and trade for a LF from a team that was fading out of the playoff picture. Less competition, and less demanded in a return trade, than was the case during the hothouse environment at the winter meetings. Plus, if you’ve got $8 million to spend, you can trade for a $16 million-caliber player for the second half of the season.
Absolutely agree with mmanovich. Kelly Johnson on budget deal, with option year attached in case he bounces back completely. 20/20 /Homers/ bags plus Juan G getting in if KJ slumps, 5 million or less could it get done plus incentive markers or just go one year deal right price
De aza isn’t really worth it unless they practically gift wrap him 4 frank wren
I still honestly believe c rasmus would be superb
candidate that could be had 4 decent package.rasmus would love and enjoy playing 4 the home town braves and could be perennial all Star
Let’s not forget that Prado had 17 SB last season and was only CS 4 times. If he’s in a role where he’s expected to steal more, I don’t see why he couldn’t lead off and steal 20 bases efficiently. At that point though, Jason Heyward is almost the only option for a #2 hitter and I get the feeling they don’t want to take the bat out of his hands and send runners often with him up. Simmons COULD do it, IF he continues to hit as he was hitting last season, which I don’t think many of us are expecting. He does have an 87% contact rate, so if he can keep that number high, I don’t see why we couldn’t go 1) Prado 2) Simmons 3)Heyward
Hamilton to the Halos???
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/12/angels-to-sign-josh-hamilton.html
Trumbo, Trout, Pujols, Hamilton… are you FUCKING serious??
as a angels first(born in so cal) and braves second(moved here in 92), I’m really really happy the angels got hamilton and really really pissed the Dodgers just blew up the NL
Braves have signed IF Ramiro Pena to a 1 year MLB deal. Has split the last 4 seasons in between AAA and the Yankees. Switch hitter. Not much at the plate, average defender at SS. I’m surprised we tendered Janish a contract if we planned on signing someone.
Organizational depth.
Remember Pastornicky got cut from his Dominican team. It that is AAA level then Pastornicky is really a poor option. So if something happened to Simmons or Janish we are screwed for a backup ss. Well we always could have Prado feel in an emergency.
I meant Pastornicky keeps getting worse and he is not even a viable option for short time bench work. Bringing the need for this signing.
I don’t think he’s getting worse. That’s a pretty small sample size. The teams are still trying to compete, so they cut the guys that are underperforming. And I think he had some minor injury/illness (but I could just be making that up).
Hamilton to the halos, Anibel Sanchez no to the Cubs (5 yr/$75m) where they crap are these deals coming from?
*now*
Now that Hamilton is going to the Halos what is everybodies thoughts on trying to pick up Peter Bourgos?
Now everyone’s saying that the Angels NEED to trade an OF. Bourjos or Francisco? Check out fangraphs.com.
I think if Upton would move to LF then he would be a great guy to have in CF. But his offensive numbers aren’t worth him wasting away in LF since he generates most of his value with defense and speed, and he was pretty crappy with the bat last season with a sub-300 OBP. Was he injured in 2012 or did he just not get the playing time with Trout coming up fulltime? But I would actually rather have Francisco considering the cost it would take to get him.
What u think of boujos in left, francisco at 3rd and prado at 2nd? Francsco is prolly worth more defensively and about the same offensively. Not into doing all the sabermetrics research, call me lazy. But love to hear peoples debate.
If bourjous came he would play center, obviously. the real question is simply what it would take to get him. I think probably to much. End drunk guy statement
You don’t sign the biggest FA acquisition in franchise history (a centerfielder) and then move him to a lesser position (left field) before playing even one game. That’s just not how it works.
I think you have to viva, if you get Bourjos he MUST play CF, Upton’s feelings be damned. To not do so is to waste him in LF and that’s just stupid.
Yeah.. You don’t really want to piss off the guy you just convinced to spend the next 5 years working with you by saying “damn what you think, we’re moving you to a new position.” that’s just a shitty way to operate and would really effect the team’s ability to sign FAs in the future. Plus, it’s just a dock move.
I found bourjos was a 4+ war player in 2011. Think he could return to form if given an everyday opportunity.
With liberty ownership and a crappy tv media deal you have to get a little bit on the eccentric side. Bourjos in left would give you the best defensive outfield with the hope of a plus 1st position hitter(since his average is not that good but his obp is decent to call him “leadoff hitter”.) I am looking at his 2011 season as being what he can be.
TV deals & deep pocket owners, nice to have but we don’t have that luxury. We are still better off then the Rays & As from a payroll stand point so if FO is clever and disciplined we will still compete each year.
May sound like sour grapes but $230m as an annual payroll is starting to look ridiculous…The Marlins would be lucky to get to $30m next year! (Taking the deferred TOR payment out)
Wonder what it would take to snag Trumbo away from the Angels. Yeah I know, he doesn’t have a ton of range or a high OBP, but we have stuck Hinske in left plenty of times and he can’t be much worse than him (range wise).
I like trading for Trumbo. HUGE right-hand bat to plug in the lineup. We already dealt once with the Angels this off-season, why not do another.
Likely wishful thinking, but since I’m stuck at work anyway, why not daydream a little?? So, haters stay away and this is purely for fun…(unless it really happens).
IF we could land Trumbo, understand that we could actually put Upton in the leadoff spot and let him do his thing. Oh the possibilities!!
But…
Upton CF
Prado 3B
Heyward RF
Trumbo LF
Freeman
Uggs
Whoever is catching
Simmons
And, that’s just ’till Mac comes back.
only problem the rotation would look like this
husdon
medlen
maholm
teheran
delgado
with gilmartin and graham as your inevitable backups until we get beach back because we would have to send either medlen/minor and spruill/gilmartin in the deal for trumbo
if we hadnt already traded hanson we would be in better shape to pull this trade off
You think we’d have to give up that much to get Trumbo? I was thinking more along the lines of 1 major league ready starter and a prospect. Maybe something like Delgado and Gilmartin. If we had to give up Minor, I think that would be too much.
I would go with Prado at lead off unless we get a high on-base guy.
How about Gyorko? Plays 3rd and 2nd, looks as though he could play left. Power numbers will drop due to park effect, but still solid line-drive, doubles machine with 15-20 HR seems realistic. Good OBP, decent BB and K%. I would take him over Trumbo. He is blocked at 2nd and 3rd and Padres need pitching. What would it take to get him?
How about Norichika Aoki of the Brewers for LF? I know he’s not a “sexy” name, and I haven’t heard anyone mention him, but last year as a 30 year old rookie the guy hit .288, had a .350 OBP, stole 30 bases, is a contact hitter who doesn’t strike out, and played good defense. Plus he’s signed dirt cheap for the next two years. Aoki would be perfect for leftfield and our leadoff spot.
The Brewers are looking for pitching: why not try to trade two of our young pitchers for Aoki? Do you think they’d bite?
Or, as cheaper options, what about Gerardo Parra of the Diamondbacks (great defender in LF) or even Charlie Blackmon of the Rockies?
Anybody else going through withdrawal?
Yep, no news or even mention of Braves related rumors!
Yeah, me too. Nary a peep from the Braves FO?
Gattis hit 30th hr of season tonight and got his 100th rbi in 121 games for year. (121games). 162 games progression is 40 hrs and 100 rbis. Mejias is 1st in Venezuelan league stats with 14 hrs and Gattis is alone at 2nd with 12.
EL OSO BLANCO!
that should be 133 rbis
Any thoughts on Ethier? Pretty high contract, but that might mean Dodgers would be willing to part with him without getting much in return.
Seems to me that Ethier is just an amped up Juan Francisco. If memory serves me right, Either doesn’t hit LHP all that well and is not a plus defender.
Not saying that I wouldn’t mind having him, but I think at the price, it’s not worth it. LAD would have to eat a ton of the contract IMO.
I don’t see why the Dodgers would really want to trade Ethier and sign Swisher, who puts up similar numbers. I think the Braves have -1million % chance of acquiring him. He’s locked up in a contract until 2018 that makes Upton’s look like small change.
Michael is correct in that he cannot hit lefties, and his fielding scores have ranged from bad to decent. Though calling him an “amped up Juan Francisco” isn’t very accurate. Ethier has been worth 19.3 WAR over his 7 years. Not bad.
Actually Viva… that’s like comparing apples to oranges. Francisco hasn’t even had a chance to see what he would do (WAR-wise) playing full time. He has logged 4 ML Seasons and yet and has barely played a full ML season’s worth of games. On the other hand, Ethier has played 1,003.. 10x more games.
Extrapolate the production of Francisco so far for the number of opportunities that Ethier has had… and Francisco would be worth roughly 11-12 WAR.
An amped up Juan Francisco. :)
That’s not really how it works.
No, not really. You’re right. It’s obvious that Ethier is a better talent. But is he a $18MM a year talent more than Francisco is a $480,000 a year talent?
I think not. Regardless of WAR.
I never said I thought we could or should think of Ethier as an option. Would I rather have Ethier than Juan? Of course. If we were living in the fantasy world of video game baseball and payroll equality. The LA Death Star devours all contracts and Ethier’s is not an exception.
I think when a team other than Miami offers a contract like that, they are not looking to part ways. I think LA is more than content to enter many future seasons with Crawford, Kemp, and Ethier as their starting OFers.
EVAN GATTIS is STILL a BEAST!!
He Just Homered for his 13th in the Venezuelan Winter League!!! I Saw on TVO (via Aguila’s Facebook Page) He’s certainly worth a Look…How bad can his defense be?
Relax, it’s the Venezuelan Winter League. I’m sure he will get a nice long look in ST. But let’s hold of on the anointing oils until he’s done this against AAA and above pitching eh?
EL OSO BLANCO!!
viva, I know next to nothing about Gattis, but you calling him the White Bear is seriously selling me on him.
“Phils Interested In Vernon Wells, Still In On Cody Ross”
Ooohhh oooohhhh please! Michael Young AND Vernon Wells in a Phillies uniform would make this the best Christmas ever! With Utley being a regular on the DL and Ruiz missing at least 25 games, they could be trotting out the worst offense in the NL East which is saying a lot.
But Ben Revere is fast? So that’s good?
Why do the Phillies want to have the oldest team in MLB? This will be awesome if they’re paying Michael Young and Vernon Wells $35M to put up a .650 OPS in the back of that lineup!